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HSS tool inserts

UK supplier of HSS tool inserts

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ian j20/12/2010 12:39:39
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337 forum posts
371 photos
Hi.
I came across this video on youtube:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKGkkGFsF50
Where the guy in the US is using HSS tool inserts instead of carbide.
I have several SCLC(R & L) lathe tool & boring bar holders which use the CCMT 060202 carbide inserts.I would like to try HSS inserts, does any one know of a UK supplier of HSS inserts which are suitable for the SCLR holders?
Regards Ian
Ian S C20/12/2010 13:03:18
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7468 forum posts
230 photos
I,v often thought about brazing short bits of HSS to mild steel so that I can use up some of the little bits that are too short to use other wise.  I suppose a clip could hold a piece on a mild steel tool holder similar to the way carbide tips are held.
 
   I don't know about manufactured holders, I make my own, I'm not paying $NZ150 for a tool holder I can make in an hour or so, from steel that cost $NZ 000. Ian S C
EtheAv8r20/12/2010 13:10:58
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111 forum posts
3 photos
That looks very interesting, however the web site does not exist, arwarnerco.com is not a registered domain.
Peter G. Shaw20/12/2010 13:23:00
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1531 forum posts
44 photos
It is my intention to braze bits of HSS onto ms, mainly because a) TCT and I don't seem to get on all that well; and b) I want cranked tools to get the cutting point in front of the 4-way tool block. I've already done one that I use on aluminium - when I can remember that it - and in readiness I've bought a couple of 5" lengths of HSS which I will cut up using an angle grinder with a metal cutting blade.
 
Regards,

Peter G. Shaw
Terryd20/12/2010 13:25:10
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
hi All
 
The Little Machine Shop in the US sell them here, and will ship to the UK but the holders and inserts are expensive.
 
Regards and seasons greetings
 
Terry
Ramon Wilson20/12/2010 13:32:10
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1655 forum posts
617 photos
I've never brazed HSS to steel for tooling but I have for years used the shanks of used FC3 'Throw away' cutters as tool bits. Held in steel holders they are easily and quickly ground to all sorts of shapes - screw cutting, very small  parting off and boring tools, radiusing, chamfering etc etc.
 
Each holder has a hole drilled in the end at one end and a cross hole drilled in the other. The bits are held with 4BA caphead screws.
 
Because of the holder there are limits when working up close to a shoulder but overall I have found them extremely versatile and most of all cheap. 'Wouldn't be without them'
 
Hope that's useful
 
Regards - Ramon
KWIL20/12/2010 14:15:32
3681 forum posts
70 photos
No wonder they are more expensive, they are water jet cut from sheet, drilled  and then ground as opposed to being a quick powder pressing job.
Michael Cox 120/12/2010 14:30:54
555 forum posts
27 photos
If you braze HSS won't you ruin the hardness? My understanding is that HSS softens if held for anytime above 500 degrees celsius. Brazing and silver solder  both melt at greater than 600 degress.
Mike
EtheAv8r20/12/2010 15:00:02
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111 forum posts
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Posted by EtheAv8r on 20/12/2010 13:10:58:
That looks very interesting, however the web site does not exist, arwarnerco.com is not a registered domain.

 I don't seem to be able to edit my posts....  however it seems there are DNS issues as http://www.arwarnerco.com/ is a valid domain and the site is now available.

Stub Mandrel20/12/2010 15:31:45
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4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
HSS won't lose its hardness at red heat.
 
Neil
The Merry Miller20/12/2010 15:55:25
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484 forum posts
97 photos
Similar to what Ramon has been doing.
 
My son-in-law whilst working in the furniture many years ago, gave me literally hundreds of single flute HSS router cutters that were blunt and not worth sending them away for sharpening
These ranged from 1/8" bits with 1/4" shank upto 3/4" bits with 1/2" shanks. The length of the cutting sections of the bits ranged upto 2" long, An absolute goldmine.
I found them a tremendous use as woodturning  gouges suitably mounted in  mild steel holders/wooden handles.
I also use them now suitably modified when metal turning.
 
One last thing, in the late 50's (that's 1950's not 1850's) I remember making lathe cutting tools by machining a ledge on the end of 1/2" square m.s. blanks and building up  the ledge with an electric arc rod known as HARDEX. Suitably dressed to profile afterwards they made excellent turning tools for M.S and brass.
Do any old timers remember this technique?
 
Gordon W20/12/2010 17:44:48
2011 forum posts
Interesting that, Len. I've got a couple of tools, 1/2" square mild steel with a bit of a hard cutting edge, been wondering what they were, must be welded deposit, although they look commercially made, and to far gone to be of much use now.
Ramon Wilson20/12/2010 18:25:02
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1655 forum posts
617 photos
No Len I don't remember this technique but I do remember HARDEX!
 
As a young apprentice welder on a ship yard we used to have an 'outside job' job hard surfacing  'blades' for the big EARAT road planing machines. That was in the days when the road surface was heated and all the old tar was literally planed off. (Do they still do that?)  The blades were 3/4" thick about 7 feet long by 8" and the surfacing covered about  a 2 1/2" width over the full length - that was a lot of surface and a lot of Hardex - a most awful fume producing rod. Half inch flat beads and overlapping, not much was covered with one rod - two and half blades a day if you really went at it and could stand the fumes You are the first person I've heard refer to them since leaving the yard.I can still smell those fumes today if I think about it.
 
The surface was indeed very hard but I think I'd still prefer the FC3 way for tooling - If Ian has a nearby jobbing workshop they'll probably have loads of spent FC3s for the asking.
 
Forgive the transgression for going off topic but that was a real blast from the past.
 
Regards - Ramon
Nicholas Farr20/12/2010 18:39:04
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3988 forum posts
1799 photos
Hi, I can remember having to build up tool shanks with Stellite rods, using Oxy-Acetylene welding during my course work, in my advanced gas welding year. The actual welding rods made really good scribers, and I've used them more for this than welding with them.

   I remember the HARDEX electrodes (proper name) that Len metioned, but only used them for hard faceing quarry buckets and the like. A much better hard facing electrode, IMO, was Cobalarc, both were made by BOC/Murex and there were a few different grades for different wearing extremes. The ones you used Len, may have been Hardex 350 as some of the others are unmachinable and were designed primerally for earth moving equipment.
 
Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 20/12/2010 18:46:57

John Olsen20/12/2010 23:31:45
1294 forum posts
108 photos
1 articles
I've used broken centre drills to make boring tool bits, also 1/8 square HSS bits are handy for brazing onto things. The Dremel style cutoff wheels are very handy for cutting off small bits. HSS does not mind being heated to red heat for brazing or silver soldering. I avoid quenching it, it should not be necessary and has the risk of causing thermal shock.
 
The same thing can be done with bits and pieces of carbide, of course you need the right wheel to sharpen those. It seems to take the silver solder fine with ordinary flux.
 
If you have access to the machine to cut it nicely, carbide is good for adding to small crankdisks for balance weights as it is much more dense than lead, although not of course as dense as pure tungsten. But the shanks of broken cutters are easier to find. (I suppose you could collect light bulb filaments...)
 
Stellite was also a material that was used to hard face components.
 
regards
John
russell21/12/2010 01:21:05
142 forum posts
when i bought my OA welding torch a few years ago (dillon/henrob) the salesman demonstrated 'hard facing' using old drill bits. the bit was used as a filler rod, and used to build an edge on a MS bar, eg as a cold chisel. perhaps the heat (a lot more than red! ) affected it somewhat but it was still a very hard edge.
 
(i have a bundle of old cobalarc rods as well, maybe they could make good scribers /tools?
 
regards
 
russell 
Bill Pudney21/12/2010 06:29:58
622 forum posts
24 photos
I use the HSS indexable tips from LMS, yes they are expensive but they are pretty good....certainly better than my attempts at sharpening some tools!!
A R Warner is the company that makes them.
 
For what its worth I'd get them again if I had to.
 
cheers
Bill Pudney
Weldsol21/12/2010 11:38:53
74 forum posts
Posted by russell on 21/12/2010 01:21:05:
when i bought my OA welding torch a few years ago (dillon/henrob) the salesman demonstrated 'hard facing' using old drill bits. the bit was used as a filler rod, and used to build an edge on a MS bar, eg as a cold chisel. perhaps the heat (a lot more than red! ) affected it somewhat but it was still a very hard edge.
 
(i have a bundle of old cobalarc rods as well, maybe they could make good scribers /tools?
 
regards
 
russell 
 
Hi Russell I would check those cobalarc rods of yours as from what I can remember they were tubular (plain steel tube with powder inside ) and dipped for the flux so they wouldn't make a good scriber
 
Paul

 

Nicholas Farr21/12/2010 13:12:24
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3988 forum posts
1799 photos
Hi Paul, I concur, Cobalarc are tubular filled with a powder type deposit. They really are only any good for hard facing, and there were several different grades for different applications.
 
Regards Nick.
ian j14/01/2011 10:39:58
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337 forum posts
371 photos
Hi.
I decided to buy from A.R.Warner in the US. 10 cost £40, which included shipping & commision on my credit card, which i thought was reassonable. Unfortunatelythey went through UK Border Agency & I had to pay VAT!!
Tried one yesterday  on brass.MS & ally & was very impressed. I like the idea of just rubbing on an oil stone to sharpen them.
Regards Ian

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