Member postings for Peter G. Shaw

I also have one following a comment from Harold Hall. I quite like it, but I don't use it all that much. Why! Frankly, I'm getting past it, but yes it's ok.

Mine is metric & non vernier, and cost, according to my records, £7.50 on 16 December 2010. Seems a bit cheap that, so if anyone from Axminster happens to read this, perhaps they could confirm? Order ref was WEB714260.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw.

I keep getting asked by various parties for my mobile phone number. My reply is, that I do have one, but I don't give out the number. Most genuine firms accept that. Surprisingly, the ones that have caused most problems, are the GP & the Dentist, the latter being an American (where else?) piece of software.

Remember though, you always have the upper hand - if in doubt, or even if not, you can always hang up on the caller. End of scam call.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

Yes John, a bit like you, ignore them, refuse to play, go ex-directory, don't give out mobile phone number etc etc etc. Choose out of the ordinary email addresses, eg a string of words without punctuation, think of a word and change as much as possible to strange characters - there's quite lot of them - but be prepared for awkwardness when it comes to genuine people.

Must admit that still with BT and probably paying exhorbitant prices, but this new fangled idea of landlines via the internet together with loss of 3G might force a change.

Speedwise I'm supposed to be on FTTC with a minimum of 54GB - is that correct? - I think. But really not too bothered, it's plenty fast enough for me.

Ian,

Gradually, over the years have reduced alcoholic input to about zero, or maybe a half bitter shandy but probably not, but only if am out for a meal, but even that is dropping to about nil. Frankly, these days I just can't be bothered going out for expensive overpriced meals.

Sorry folks, I'm, not overwell at the moment and am spending inordinate amounts of time traipsing back & forth to various people, eg, hairdresser, podiatrist (I can't reach my toe nails), CT scans, chemotherapy clinic, oncologist, GP surgery, dentist, oncologist. Frankly, I'm bloomin' fed up! So thankfully, at least the scams appear to be muted.

Tootle pip,

Peter G. Shaw

I use NHS hearing aids, and am supposed to get them, and me, checked every 3 years, otherwise I need another referral by the GP. But what the heck, at the mileage involved, 27 miles to the main Audiology clinic or 14 miles to another clinic, both of which have proper sound insulated hearing rooms, (I mention that because there are two nearer clinics which don't have sound proof rooms and which I now will not use.) there is a strong disincentive to go.

Anyway, I have Menieres in one ear which after the application of Gentamycin to stop the vertigo etc just about works, indeed one audiologist, at least I think that's what she was, actually asked why I was bothering with a hearing aid in that ear, it was so bad. In the other ear, well, I don't know what happened, something did, but during a choral concert which I was taking part in, I lost most of my bass response, resulting in the provision of a hearing aid for that ear. Gradually over I think about 18 months or so, some bass response has returned and the last ime I had it checked, she said that I was better than before. Explain that one!

So, private or NHS? Well, after discovering how a certain underclass seem able to live off State funds without working, with no-one doing anything about it, I thought, right, if the state supplies it, then if I need it, then I will take it. Selfish? You bet! But I have spent a large number of years working, paying large amounts of tax etc, and then to see people getting stuff for free, well it sticks in the craw.

Sorry about that moan.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

I must admit to also having come across all these names/ideas etc, and like Mick B1 above, I long since stopped buying pre-ground tools as I invariable ended up either not using, or regrinding myself. For most of my turning, I have tended to use the tool which cuts when moving towards the headstock and thus has it's cutting edge on the left hand side of the tool, and which I know as a Right Hand Turning tool. What's in a name though?

It's worth pointing out that the RH Turning tool can be used, if canted over somewhat, as a facing tool as well. (Shock, horror, gasp etc). Hence, I can get away with a lot of my external turning with just the one tool.

I may as well point out that some years ago, I started using carbon steel tools as well, old files actually, softened, cut up, reground, and then re-hardened. Ok, they don't last long before requiring re-sharpening, but hey, the material is free, ie worn out files.

I do have a set of HSS tools hidden on a shelf somewhere, but never used. Why? Because I never seemed to need to use them given what I already have. But, I did make one mistake with this set - I bought 1/2" or 12mm square shank tools as the lathe was able to take them. A further and much bigger "but", is the amount of regrinding tools of this size take! So, don't buy the biggest tools your lathe can take: for our purposes, 1/4" or 6mm square tools are perfectly adequate - yes you will need packing to get the cutting tip at the correct height, but sharpening/re-grinding is so much easier, there being less material to remove.

I haven't really bothered about the distinction between roughing and finishing. I think it was Tubal Cain, (T.D. Walshaw) or maybe L.C. Mason who said that the average ME never uses the equipment at rates requiring a roughing tool, so I always sharpen mine as a finishing tool. I did once do some experimenting to see what the lathe could handle. Never again. The lathe was happy, but I wasn't given the amount of smoke generated by the cutting oil. So another reason for lightweight cutting.

So, there you are, my thoughts, strictly as a very amateur, amateur.

Happy turning,

Peter G. Shaw

As someone rapidly, ie 17 days to go, approaching his 80th birthday, suffering from BigC, and possibly other stuff as well, I do look forward with, well, I don't know what. Fear? Trepidation? Pain - well, I've got that already. And so on. Yes folks, I'm well aware now that end of life beckons, and I'm trying to get rid of stuff. Indeed, the workshop hasn't been used this year, actually probably since last October. What do I want? The Fire? The Flood? The Ground? So far no-one's come back to say how it feels, so don't know what I want. Perhaps I'll chicken out and leave it to someone else to decide, coward that I am.

Not good, not good.

All I can say is that when I look back and see what I, an ex-Grammar School lad with 3 'O' Levels and (eventually) a C&G Full Technological Certificate, managed to achieve without too much effort, well, it's not been too bad a life.

Melancholy. Or what?

Peter G. Shaw

Dave,

Your recollections of POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) is surely dependant on your location. Yes, there were things wrong, but in some respects this was because of the underlying pay structure. I lived and worked in the Huddersfield/Bradford/Leeds areas where our pay was relatively good for those areas. Unfortunately, even with Inner & Outer London Weighting Allowance, pay in London was poor with the inevitable result that the better technicians left the GPO to work for any of BBC, IBA, computer fims and got an immediate good pay rise. Of those that didn't leave, they either gained early promotion and thus were lost to exchange maintenance, or transferred away from London, leaving the city to be run by lower class technicians. I remember a colleague who temporarily transferred to London for 2 years, with, I think - as much overtime as he could handle, free lodgings and free travel home. He told me that he made in excess of £30K during his stint. This was in the 1980's I believe.

Another problem was that the GPO was a Civil Service department and was thus financially under the control of the Treasury, and certainly in the 1950's/60's, they used to limit how much money could be spent on capital projects, hence the restrictions leading to, as you correctly said, - party lines, old, aging equipment etc. I believe that one of the reasons for this was lease-lend and the need to pay back the Americans. Possibly another problem may well have been the choice of technology back in the early days of automatic telephony when Strowger was deemed to be better than the other systems then available, and as we all know, this view was eventually proven to be wrong.

Yes there were some dead-eyes, at least one character I knew who should have been sacked, but at the same time there were some very knowledgable technicians about, technicians who looked after the equipment under their control as if it was their own personal equipment.

Yes, I am well aware of the reputation Post Office Telephones had, and it sickens me that those good technicians I knew and respected did not earn the respect they deserved because of that reputation.

Nevertheless, today's systems where control is centralised does mean that whereas 50 years ago, a failure was limited to a small area, today, that area can be very large indeed.

Incidently, don't hold it against the technicians, or even the GPO/BT about the physical state of telephone boxes. Instead, think sympathetically about those poor technicians who had to clean it up, just because some people had no respect - been there, seen some of it, fortunately not too bad, but...

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

But at least it worked, albeit slowly by today's standards, and wasn't susceptible to 'external' interference.

But doesn't this show up a potential problem? Are we now more susceptible to malign external influences by so-called bad actors? And what about system security when large swathes of the country's 999 service have been put out of action like this? What else can be easily switched off?

Makes one think, doesn't it, modern is not necessarily better.

Peter G. Shaw

So, Dave, knowing what you do know about W11, why then do you continue to support them? Especially when you've already said that Linux is safer than Windows.

Peter G. Shaw

Hopper,

Like you, I hace come up against this "tell is your mobile number thingy". And like you, I won't comply, except in certain instances and even then, I've managed to get it deleted afterwards.

Similarly, when I bought 2 new laptops last year, or was it the precious year - can't remember which, not that it matters, W10 was partially installed and required completing - including things like what is your email address etc. And of course M$ carefully hide the fact that installation can be completed without divulging this info. Actually, I gave them an email account which was about to be closed as I refused to pay the appropriate "danegeld".

And as people know, I use Linux, so sod of Microsoft!

But isn't it remarkable that all these things seem to originate in the land of the free! Ha-Ha.

Peter G. Shaw

I'm with those who don't want, or is it need, to use all these modern ideas. But there is another point. Some months ago, my doctor's surgery which has fancy software to enable one to request repeat prescriptions, modified said software. I won't go into what actually happened as it's documented elsewhere, but I found it interesting that when the software decided it wasn't going to let me play, the alternative, good old fashioned speech via an answering machine, was far, far faster! So much for making it easier!

Howi,

Do we accept the 'benefits' of smart tv's? It isn't that long ago that there was something of a furore when it was discovered that one brand of smart tv, was actually listening all the time. And if it was listening, then what is it sending back home.

Why should we have to give up privacy just to take advantage of something modern?

Nigel,

I too dislike Alexa. I really cannot see what use it is. Unfortunately, my elder son bought us Portal, yet another device with security implications. After all, if it's working, then it's listening. I can see the idea, but I'm not exactly convinced about the necessity of it, although I think it was more for their little girl to use.

At least I can, if I think on, unplug the thing!

Peter G. Shaw

How long should manufactuers support their products? I rather suspect that we could argue over this for ever and a day without coming to a sensible answer. Some people seem to think that it, whatever 'it' may be, should be abandoned once an improved, more up to date device is produced. But why? Why should the consumer be required to scrap fully working devices just because a more up to date version is available? Perhaps if there was a part-exchange scheme available it might be acceptable.

But lets take a personal problem I had a few years ago, something which even now leaves me with a nasty taste. 15 years we bought a 2 year old diesel car (no names, no pack drill) so it was reasonably modern. It was the worst car I have ever had the misfortune to own, and that's saying something considering some of the other vehicles I've owned. After five years we had had enough so we got rid and bought a new Toyota Avensis petrol. 10 years later, that Avensis is today still going strong, 120K miles on the clock (50% more than the duff car), MPG is still the same as it was when new. Other than normal servicing we have not had to pay a penny for repairs.

Now some people will say that at 10 years old, the Toyota is clapped out, inefficient, uneconomical, etc etc. But is it? Comparison with the previous car showed that it wasn't that much less economical than the diesel. Tyre life is vastly improved, yet according to various 'experts' the diesel tyre life was satisfactory! The diesel had a new clutch at 56K, and a 'new' engine at 59K. Plus other things. So which is/was the better vehicle? The one with the 'modern common rail diesel, or the one with the basic non-turbo petrol?

Reverting back to the original point, it seems to me that for the vast majority of people, updating because it, whatever 'it' is, is simply not necessary. Ok, I'm not talking about 78rpm records and bamboo needles, I'm talking about a printer which prints the occasional letter, or drawing, or whatever. Used in the home environment, or for that matter in an office. I'm not talking about worn out equipment, I'm simply talking about something that works and works and ... Of course, failure is something else and is not what I'm talking about. But unfortunately, and this is where we came in, certain manufacturers (understandably) make it difficult to keep otherwise good equipment working. And that is my point - just why should businesses like Microsoft and/or HP dictate that users should scrap otherwise good equipment which, ok, it may not have all the bells and whistles, but are they actually required? To put it another way, should I scrap my Toyota just because it's 10 years old and doesn't have a battery in it?

Somehow, I doubt we'll ever solve this one.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

I would ujst add one comment to Tim's offering, and that is, when tempering these steels, don't hang about before quickly cooling the tool. The colour changes at the cutting edge can be so darned quick that almost before you've recognised, eg straw colour, the tool has gone past it and is now in the purple region!

How do I know? I'll leave that to your imagination!

Peter G. Shaw

Circlip has hit the nail smack on the head. M$ (& others) appear to deliberately to make both ancilliary equipment and software redundant, so much so that I refused to play their game when they stopped supporting XP and it was going to cost a lot of money just to upgrade to (their) current values, something I objected to strongly. Maybe it's because I'm a Yorkshireman, but I really do not see why I should have to scrap otherwise fully working equipment just to support M$'s bottom line.

Having said that, I can understand (even though I don't like it) M$'s point of view, they are, after all, a business and are out to make as much money as they can for their shareholders. But, as I'm sure is now well known, not at my expense!

Unfortunately though, I discovered recently that M$ are not the only business after emptying your (and mine) wallet in their favour. HP seem to have adopted the policy whereby certain cartidges for inkjet printers over 10 years old are no longer available, even though the printer is still working fine. And unfortunately, after market cartridges and my HP 6122 have in the past caused me some problems. As Circlip says though, sooner or later we'll be forced into line whether we like it or not!

Yes, maybe I'll consider going over to laser!

Cheers, from a saddened,

Peter G. Shaw

It's easy - M$ makes agreements with computer manufacturers that new computers will automatically come with Windows, and since the vast majority of computer users don't know about, or understand, Linux, then it's Windows almost by default.

Yes, there are some computers available without any operating system at all, but what does Mr/Mrs Average do? They go for what they've heard about, or seen elsewhere. Plus, of course, the vast majority of users don't care just as long as it works, even if it only works imperfectly. And neither do they wish to be bothered about installing software. Or even setting it up correctly. And thus the complaints will continue.

Another reason for all the complaints about M$ is the sheer quantity of M$ users as compared to Linux users.

Tootle pip,

Peter G. Shaw

Well, well, well, someone else who has finally realised just what M$ are, yet feel unable to finally take the plunge and blow them out for good.

At risk of being repetitive, I blew out M$ when they stopped supporting XP quite a few years ago, and finally settled on Linux Mint, and in this respect I note that someone above is using Ubuntu which is what Mint is based on.

Anyway, I do have to say that I don't blame M$ for taking steps to preserve their copyright etc, because, let's face it, file copying, illegal file copying that is, was rife back in the '70's and early '80's, a sort of been there, seen it, done it. Perhaps I shouldn't have said that, but actually this was all at work - at home I was using Uncle Clive's offerings. However, I did not, and do not, like M$'s attempts to dominate the world. Nor did I, or do I, like the tricks they employed to try get their way, and especially when even the EU got in on the act and stopped them doing something. But that's a long time ago now.

Two years ago, I bought two new laptops - one for main use, and one for backup purposes. Both came with W10 partially installed. Now I had absolutely no intention of using M$, but being aware of possible problems with the warranty I completed the W10 installation, and just like the OP, got asked for personal information on the first installation. Now as it happened, I was being harassed by Talk-Talk because I had an email account which somehow they had managed to take over, said harassment being along the lines of "we'll cut you off unless you take out a subscription etc". So what did I do? I gave M$ the Talk-Talk email account as I really couldn't care less. Ironically, on the second installation, I discovered that there was a way round without having to provide this information, but ... Once proved ok, I did a backup, wiped the lot and replaced with Mint.

So, where am I today? Well, I use Libre Office. Ok my needs are miniscule, but it was possible to setup Libre Office on XP, and I assume on W10, or 11, or 12 or whatever it is. What's more, the data storage and the Profile was more or less the same for both XP & for Linux. Hey presto, get Libre Office working first on XP, then install Mint and get working, then transfer the data onto the Mint system, start using Office via Mint and bye-bye M$. Ok, I took my time over it. In a similar manner, I installed Firefox & Thunderbird on XP, then transferred that data to Mint, and started using Mint. Easy-peasy when you do it that way. I also used, occasionally, an early version of Paint Shop Pro. And Design Cad Pro 2000. In both instances I managed to get them working using Wine under Linux. I must admit that back then it weren't not that good, not nohow, but... Today, I use Gimp in place of Paint Shop Pro, and I use Design Cad 3D v. 17.2. Ok it's not perfect, but the bits that are iffy, are actually completely unimportant. I also have a DOS database program (yes, really) which works quite well using DOSemu2. Ok, I can't print, not without a lot of faffing about, but frankly I've never actually needed to print anything.

I did have a total failure with a commercial program called TaxCalc, but when I discovered the HMRC online offering I started to use that, and last years Self Assessment took all of 15 minutes. I must say, though, that based on my earlier usage of TaxCalc, I found it a very good and useful program, and had I managed to get it working under Linux, then I doubt that I would have used the HMRC offering.

So, my recommendation to the OP would be to try installing the Windows versions of any programs, then install Linux, dual booting as necessary, install the Linux, or rather Open Source versions of these programs and slowly transfer over.

One final comment. I am well aware that I keep popping up and trying to persuade people to swop to Linux and blow out M$. Probably I do it too much. I would ask though, that you stop and think just how much influence, how much control, these American giants exert over our lives. Just think about some of the reported problems we read about where people, I think children mainly, end up being hooked on these various programs to the detriment of the children, and not a few adults as well. And thus I support the likes of Linux and their attempt to break the M$ hegemony.

Cheers, from a rabid disliker of M$ and all their antics,

Peter G. Shaw

I too have had the problem of "rubber" swarf shield deteriorating and breaking along the folds of the material. I have bought replacement material from ARC, but they didn't last either. The impression I gained was that they don't seem to like cold weather.

I think it may have been Harold Hall, but if not, then apologies all round, but one idea I have seen, and used, and which seems to work, is to use cutoffs from an old cereal box.

The idea is to cut the cardboard to suit, then lightly score where the folds are required and finally varnish with any old left over varnish, colour to taste, or in my case whatever's in the can. Allow to dry, gently fold and attach to the machine. They do seem to be a bit stiff - maybe my scoring wasn't deep enough, but then I was worried about cutting right through - but they do seem to work, and although I don't do much these days, are still in one piece.

Best of all, of course, they are free - once the contents have been eaten!

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 06/05/2023 14:48:30

Dave,

Unfortunately, my admittedly limited knowledge of programming etc does not insulate me from some of the things I have experienced. And some of that experience involved a specific sysop who was known for trying to prevent people who knew what they were doing, from doing it. This was when I was in fulltime employment as a telephone engineering manager.

In the instance I am thinking of, our group was given one, yes a single, access to a small mainframe computer. (Actually, I don't know what the machine should be called, but hey ho...) Now, in our group there were six of us needed access to this machine at various times. We were all 'phone engineers and we found out that this circuit was a 2 wire circuit, so the obvious answer, to us, was to use a 2 pole x 6 way switch and wire all our individual machines to this switch, and hence to the mainframe, but we weren't sure. Needless to say, the sysop was not really forthcoming so I went to see him, told him to shut up, listen, and answer our/my questions (yes, I pulled rank), eg, we understand it is a 2 wire circuit, yes or no. Is it possible to switch it between 6 pc's using a switch box. It turned out that there was no problem at all with switching the circuit, but he, the sysop would accept no responsibility for lost data due to incorrect switching. Fair enough, but why couldn't he tell us straight away? Needless to say, we wired it up ourselves and it was dead simple: "Anyone using the mainframe?" If no, then "Peter (because it was nearest to me), can you switch it please? ". "Right - done". We never had a problem.

Another problem was that I came across a colleague who was struggling with three databases - he had to shut down his computer to change to another database. Apparently he was told by his support group that it was not possible to merge the three into one! I took a copy of one of the files, and experimented, and discovered that there were two bytes which held the number of records in hex, in the usual method. (I must admit I've forgotten which way round it was, Hi-Lo or Lo-Hi). I then took a copy of another of the databases and managed to successfully merge them. As a result, my colleague and I agreed a day for the merging and in the morning, I copied all three files, merged them, and my colleague then successfully ran the new file. Of course, the original files were kept just in case.

In another instance, we had to use the electronic equivalent of punched cards, each one requiring a specific header appropriate to the exchange concerned. This was on a mainframe elsewhere in the country. I discovered that there was a batch processing system available and managed to write a batch program to create a file and insert the appropriate 1st line data. Unfortunately, I made the grave mistake of leaving my name within the code, and consequently some years later was asked about it. Having forgotten all about it, I denied all knowledge until shown the evidence.

I do understand why some of the comments above have arisen, indeed at one time I was tasked with installing one of the early Windows versions on all of our computers. I was surprised to discover how many were set up as if in America! I also know of a clerical assistant who adamantly refused to set her VDU at the recognised HS&E approved height.

I won't go any further, but as I said, I do understand how some of these comments have arisen, especially having seen the apparent lack of ability displayed by some users. It still doesn't excuse the poor programming I discussed above.

Dijkstra may well have been right, but what little I read suggested he was a high handed twerp who thought he, and he alone knew what he was going on, and to come out with that statement simply shows a deep disdain for other people and a total lack of understanding of them.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

I’ve just read through this thread, and very interesting it was too. But what seems to be missing is the “user experience”. It’s all very well going on about the differences between C, C+ & C++, but what about the poor old end user who has to put up with the cockups made by so-called professional programmers (and their advisors!!!). So what about the following?

Let’s start with Dijkstra’s famous dictum "It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." Who the heck is he to make such a wide ranging nasty comment about BASIC programmers? To me it smacks of one-up-manship, or perhaps pure arrogance by suggesting that I, with a smattering of BASIC experience can never become a programmer to his standards. Ok, then what about these examples of so-called professional programming!

Example 1. I was completing an application form – doesn’t matter what for, but there was a drop down list of occupations. So, ok, I chose retired. Two questions further on, and there was a question “Employer’s Business”. Eh! What? I’m retired, hence I don’t have an employer. How difficult is it write the programme such that if my occupation was shown as “retired”, then the question about employers business would be skipped?

Example 2. A different company, not too sure this one wasn’t a jumped up Building Society, but a drop down list of occupations, so I immediately went down about 2/3 and started looking for “Retired”, only to discover that there was no order in the list, none whatsoever. Again, how difficult is it put the list into alphabetic order?

Example 3. My doctor’s this time. In order to request repeat prescriptions via the internet there is an online system. It requires certain information, including mobile ‘phone number. Now, I do have a mobile ‘phone, but it’s for MY purposes, not anyone elses. E.g. I have had a heart attack, so I always take the ‘phone with me when I’m out just in case I need to call for assistance. But, and it’s a big but, I absolutely do not want all the world being able to contact me when I’m away from home – I have a landline for that. So I did not enter the mobile ‘phone number. All was well, I was able to request repeat prescriptions ok. But then, they decided to update/improve security. Fair enough, but I couldn’t comply. Why? Because I had not, and now could not, enter a mobile ‘phone number. And so I had to use the old method of telephoning and leaving a message on the answering machine. Which of course, was quicker, easier, faster, you name it, the ‘phone beat t’internet hands down.

Example 4. My dentist this time. A nice easy method of inputting personal & medical data via t’internet. But one question was “Do I require antibiotic insurance?” Or something similar. Eh! What the h*** is that? Ok, ignore it and carry on. Then insert my DOB, something like 01 Jan 2001. (Ok, not really but it’ll do.) So that was what I entered. Failed – I had to enter Jan 01, 2001. And then it dawned on me – blasted American software! At which point I went to bed. The following day I carried on, but I couldn’t – the system locked me out, so I had to ‘phone the dental surgery to get it re-opened. Fortunately all my previously entered data was still there, but if it had not….?

As a consequence, programmers and their advisors, huh, I’ve absolutely no faith in them.

Now ok, I accept that there are cost implications, but why, oh why do we have to use software that does, or doesn’t do what it supposed to do. How difficult is it to retain at the back of your mind that this is a list, and should be in alphabetic order? Does everyone have a mobile ‘phone? (Answer here is no.) Surely American software should be checked for UK usage?

So, discuss the merits of C, C+, C++ to your heart’s content, but please, please, consider the end user!

Oh, incidently, my programming experience is limited to SC/MP (INS 8060) which taught me about machine code & buses, Z80 machine code, Sinclair Basic for the ZX80, ZX81 & Spectrum, Basic 80 (which we called Mbasic) and Tiny Basic from which I manged to rewrite a Startrek programme for the ZX81 and then the Spectrum. So not really very much. And frankly, at my age, nearly 80, I really can’t be bothered anymore.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

It's also difficult to buy, eg laptops, that aren't made in China. For example, a couple of years ago, I bought two new laptops. I specifically didn't want Chinese, so as I went looking, if I found that there was a Chinese connection, that ruled it out. Eventually I bought a pair of Dynabook Satellite Pro laptops thinking that they were Japanese. (Originally, Satellite & Satellite Pro were Toshiba's but Toshiba opted out and sold the brands to Sharp who as far as I can tell have renaned themselves, or this division perhaps, to Dynabook.) Anyway, when they arrived, various stickers pronounced Dynabook Toshiba, Dynabook Europe GMBH and much to my disgust, "Made in China". So much for my efforts to avoid Chinese!

Humph!

Peter G. Shaw