Titanic submersible

So as not to hijack the other thread HERE relating to the original Titanic disaster, thought I would open a separate thread, as the topic of the missing submersible Titan has come up several times.

Yes we are all hoping the vessel and occupants are found soon. Dramatic times.

Interesting to compare the thread on Artie Moore's reception of the Titanic's distress signal in Wales and what a big deal it was in 1912 with today's communications where ordinary people worldwide are following it live online. t

Equally interesting are the technical details of the vessel that are emerging. From it being controlled by a video game hand console to its NASA-related carbon fibre pressure vessel capable of withstanding depths greater than a submarine, some 3,800 metres or 12.500 feet. Water pressure down there is a phenomenal 6,000 PSI.

But it does seem a little kind "homemade" when you read THIS article about the seven emergency ways the Titan has of surfacing, dumping sandbags, discarded old lead pipes, disconnecting the "legs" and so on.

The other question I have is that if they have done one of these things and are sitting topside somewhere unfound in the Atlantic, which is one possibility, why is there no mention they would have an EPIRB -- Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon to guide rescuers to them. Every tin dinghy around here is required to carry one by law but no mention of one for Titan so far. Of course it would be no use if they are stuck under water where radio waves will not penetrate, which they may well be. But just thought it odd that there is no mention of it if they do make it topside, which hopefully they will today or tomorrow. Here's hoping.

Edited By Hopper on 21/06/2023 12:22:07

Edited By Hopper on 21/06/2023 12:25:29

You have summed up my opinion of the sub. Very "maker" rather than engineered. On beacons yes it should have a EPIRB abut also it could / should have an acoustic "pinger". These are ultrasonic and can be picked up by speciaised sonar. Basically a bigger version of those fited to aircraft accident recorders.
A very unfortunate event.

Robert.

This may be a little more informative than a U.K. ‘Red-Top’ tabloid: **LINK**

https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/rivers-oceans/missing-titanic-submersible-what-do-we-know-about-oceangates-titan-sub-disappearance

MichaelG.

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P.S.  __ personally, I wouldn’t worry too much about the use of a ‘cheap game controller’ … these things are user-tested to extremes, and it is likely to be reliable: many of the custom-built components will be higher-risk.

I do note, however, that it is described as ‘modified’ …

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/06/2023 13:21:28

One thought concerning the crews problems is that if the Titan manages to surface, perhaps some distance from the mothership, there is no way that the crew can open the submersible from inside because part of the departure procedure is that the entrance to the craft is securely bolted from outside prior to entering the water. If the submersible surfaces without someone undoing all the securing bolts then they could still suffocate because they can’t access fresh air.

In the information now coming into the public domain is that a previous team member was tasked with carrying out a quality audit of the submersible he came up with the fact that there was no Non Destructive Testing Procedures to monitor the structural integrity of the pressure hull, he was subsequently dismissed from his employment. I realise that all sorts of conspiracy theories will emerge because of media speculation, but having spent eleven years as an NDT technician the comment that I read seemed to be particularly relevant. Dave W

Sorry for the persons on board but I do not grasp the fascination people have with the Titanic. Niko.

For starters:

• World's largest ship [at the time]
• Maiden voyage
• Second largest loss of life in a single ship sinking [at the time]
• Lots of mega rich big wigs on board
• Hubris [of saying the ship was unsinkable] immediately punished

Edited By Bill Phinn on 21/06/2023 15:16:52

They say that the sub uses "active" monitoring for defects." Real Time Hull Health Monitoring (RTM) ". They also say " The use off-the-shelf components helped to streamline the construction..."

https://oceangate.com/our-subs.html

I don't think off the shelf and "deepest diving" go together. As I said above it looks more "maker" and less engineered. If there is an investigation I'm sure the regulatory aspect will be looked at closely. They don't mention "tours" or "passengers" on their website just crew. This sounds like the low end aviation people who try to circumvent the reqirements for carrying paying passengers by saying they are taking a test flight and have paid a non-refundable deposit or similar. This has beeen stopped in many countries.

Robert.

Nor do constructing a deepwater submersible and saying "we did this extremely fast".

An aircraft claims to have detected undersea sounds

Let's hope that the aircraft HAS, and thatm nrescuers can nget there in time to save the occupants.

Howard

I'm incredulous that there isn't some sort of time-delayed automatic release of ballast weights accompanied by automatic beacons. All with redundancy built in.

Neil

The French research vessel, Le Atalante, has just arrived on site. It is equipped with a deep diving, remote operated vehicle (ROV) called Victor 6000, that can reach the depths of the Titanic’s shipwreck. This is the first (and only) asset to arrive, capable of reaching the seabed and conducting a sea bed search.

Bon Chance

Edited By mike T on 21/06/2023 17:06:18

Edited By mike T on 21/06/2023 17:06:57

Even so passengers crew being bolted in from the outside bobbing about on the surface will still result in the air running out just the same

Apparently it costs about £200k for a seat

Part of the problem may be the extreme pressure nearly 4km under water - about 5500psi.

An automatic beacon would have to cope with the same, which is quite a challenge in itself. A crush-proof sealed container containing a battery and transmitter that detaches at the right moment, rises 4km to the surface, and then works!

Descriptions of the submersible don't seem reliable at the moment - lots of conjecture - but it does seem to have been fitted with ballast release systems. If so, I feel the most likely cause is the hull imploding, perhaps due to a fatigue crack, or accidentality smacking a window into the wreck or sea-bed. Hope not.

Fatigue must be a major hazard. Each trip, the hull is compressed and then decompressed between 14 and 5500psi. Comet airliners broke up after undergoing far smaller pressure cycles due to a minor design oversight - sharp window corners! The submersible seems to have a carbon-fibre hull between Titanium domes. Carbon-fibre is immensely strong, but I don't think cracks can be detected as they are in steel.

At least they were all volunteers.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 21/06/2023 18:24:20

- Hey, let's take an experimental submarine called "Titan" to the wreck of the Titanic. What could possibly go wrong?

An awful lot of risk to see a grave

It must be one of those bucket list items that some people have

There were it seems numerous ballast release systems, one had a 16 hour fixing that would disolve ! Fancy having no way to escape from the vessel unaided once on the surface ! I fear that a catastrophic hull failure has occured. God rest their souls. Noel

I struggle to sympathize with those involved because I think that Titanic should be left alone - it is a grave.

I would no more go to sea in one of those prototype vessels than one of Elon Musk's (or similar) space rockets.

In one of her brightest moments, Mrs P has asked why they did not have two submarines so that the second could go to the aid of the first should the need arise.

ETA: before anybody says anything, no I would not go to sea in a space rocket.

Edited By Chris Pearson 1 on 21/06/2023 19:04:00

I thought visiting graves was an acceptable everyday occurrence.