British machine tools

Some mouth-watering Hi-Fi gear mentioned here, all beyond my pocket (AND aural range!!). Some 50 years ago, when I was still hearing reasonably well, I had dinner with Bangkok's richest Brit - he had a replica English country cottage (with diamond leaded lights etc.) and his music setup was all Quad - pre-amp, amp, and a pair of electro-statics, plus a Ferrograph tape deck. Superb music, until he put on a Foster-Jenkins record ... .

With all this kit available, did anyone use it to advantage for tonight's Prom - the glorious Mahler 5 and particularly the 3rd movement. All we had was the Panasonic's built-ins - with the kit you chaps are talking about, it would have been almost too much.

Rgds

Bill

Back in late 70's we had several Chinese studying, probably the ones that got the ball rolling.

chinas stance on patents is non existent, so why support them by fueling their economy its theft.

Not only that buying foreign does british workers out of a job.

From what I have seen of Indias manufacturing its far better than Chinese still ropey putting it mildly. The only companies that do well as said earlier are the multiconglomerates using their own big chiefs to stand over these plants ruling the roost. If not quality slips with every batch and not worthwhile the hassle of returning the goods. Mrs has full time job sorting the c..p out and putting it right. Borderline pulling manufacturing plant as a lot of others are doing and setting backup in homeland.

Back in 1986, when I bought my Taiwanese lathe, there was also a Taiwanese clone of a Myford, except it had a large bore spindle, and according to the sale's man it was quite a bit heavier than a standard Myford, and I was told that they thought it was all together a better machine, and less than half the price(that's their opinion). The spindle was either no 4 or no 5 MT, and I think it had Poly-V belts. Ian S C

Yes, but there is a long way to go yet with the national minimum wage (for over 21s) being about 10x that in China!

Russell.

You can't avoid it. Where did the computer you're using come from? Where were the components made? Where did the raw materials come from?

The same goes for cars, televisions, washing machines, even food.

Russell.

Apparently the 'purchasing power' of the minimum wage in China is now about 25% of the UK minimum wage, due to lower cost of living, and is comparable to much of South America or Eastern Europe rather than South Asia.

Food for thought, even if I'm not sure what the implications are!

Neil

.

Neil and [especially] Norman,

I think you might enjoy exploring this raher neat comparison page.

MichaelG.

It is exchange rates that that control the competiveness of manufacturers. Third world countries and China in particular with its government controlled (Non floating) currency has very effectively.wiped out entire industries in the West, clothing for instance, anything that can be mass produced and shipped is at risk. We are at war, a trade war, and we are loosing.

Regards
John

Of course you can, you have a choice! Support and fuel others economy with irretrievable repercussions or support your own. When its gone, its gone who is to blame British public for generations after seeing no deeper than their own pocket.

You cant avoid it when you have no choice.

I think one of the mistakes we have made is to compete on price rather than quality, It is noticeable that DS&G, who built "nowt but lathes" and always were top quality, are still in business. Britain was always good at innovating, and making the very best, we should give that a try. competeing on price is a non starter with our cost of living!

Phil.

I venture to suggest that blind support for British industry is sterile. It would only encourage them to make sub-standard goods that have no export market, as I learnt to my cost by continuing to buy Leyland cars. Companies like DSG have moved on to hi-tech and high value. If anything, the problem is with the short term view of British investors insisting that they see a return within the financial year, which means that they are reluctant to invest in the long term. The last project I was involved with before I retired was the installation of some fairly standard tensile testing gear in a fairly exotic environment which meant some adaptation to the machines. The technical guys at two British based companies were very interested but they were warned off the project by their financial people. The German company we approached were happy to take on the job, realising that the profit might not be great but that they would learn something from the project which could useful for the future. The German company was a large, well established concern but family owned and run - they clearly had a different outlook to the Brits and I got to drink some nice German beer.

I don't agree, either, that when it's gone it's gone. These things are cyclic, as Neil has said. There have been items on the news fairly recently of clothing manufacture moving back to the UK, largely as a result of high shipping costs.

I think that, ultimately, what's best for you is probably what's best for the country as a whole.

Cheers,

Rod

According to a news bulletin last year, a large number of US companies are taking manufacturing back to the States.

It might be noted though, that such companies as Continental (aero engines) is Chinese owned.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 10/08/2014 12:10:15

My take on the demise of British Industry is bad management, the car industry being the most simple example.

I don't think a single true British car manufacturer still exists anymore

Some people "blame the unions" and yet foreign car manufacturers waltz into the UK and use the same workforce to crank out huge numbers of good quality vehicles

The final confirmation for me was the demise of Manganese Bronze who made the totally unique and very capable Black Taxi, an iconic and instantly recognisable global brand

A series of unbelievably catastrophic decisions concerning the engine (not once... but twice!) eventually resulted in them finally going t**s up and being bought out by the Chinese

The "upper echelons" of Britain have an awful lot of hubris

Well educated people who can get a Degree in Astrophysics... but they couldn't get an O-level in common-bluddy-sense

Now they've trashed British Industry the only decent jobs left for them are in the Government, Health, Education etc etc

...and we all know which way those sectors are heading...

There is a tale of an interview (too many years ago now) with the Chief Exec of the Grand Metropolitan Group, he was asked what quality he prized most highly in his managers, to which he replied "common sense". The interviewer challenged the response suggesting other qualities such as intellect. The response - "that's good too, so long as it does not get in the way of common sense"

Steve

The key to building a quality product is to use a highly skilled craftsman who is competant, cares what he is making and proud of it or to design the quality into the product and use manufacturing processes that a worker cannot get wrong. The Japanese developed many fool proofing systems to cope with an operator who was not at his best. Now we have vision systems checking parts are fitted before the next process is started also monitoring the application of sealer and adhesive by those robots that contrary to beleif do have off days and they really are stupid, more so than the biggest muppet you ever met. The holy grail is to make every part right first time, but in real life you must monitor the process to stop and correct when out of tolerance and be able to track back to the last good check. These systems do work but an outrageous set of circumstances will always occur to defeat you, so you create another check!

For those who still like to have a pop at the Marina, it was built in the same plant as the Rolls Royce body shell and the Marina was a far more accurately made body. I do not think its contempories were any better, Ford, Vauxhall and Rootes have all but disappeared from the Uk but the Mini is still made in the same plant the Marina was made in.

Mike

I'm afraid I take issue with that. It's not the astrophysics that's the problem, that at least has some understanding of the physical world. It's the managers whose background is purely financial or political who seem to move from one industry they don't understand to another that they don't understand - moving on before they are found out. There seems to be a political view that managing the NHS is the same as managing BAE which is the same as managing M&S. The upper echelons of the German company I referred to are all professional engineers.

Anyway, relax, it's Sunday

Rod

"I really do pity the people who think that buying old British scrap iron"

There are some British built machines that may well fit that category but certainly not all, some still have a great deal of life in them and will probably still be producing swarf many many years from now, you just have to be more selective and inspect the kit before purchase.

My 5" metric Boxford is one such machine and cost £500.00 10 years ago, less than a far eastern machine of similar size and is probably now worth more than I paid for it. It's a bit like buying a second hand car you just need to be careful and if you know very little about cars or machine tools take someone who does to look at it.

One should not try to tar the whole ship with the same brush.

Bob

Bogs, I couldn't agree more. I'm very happy with my S7, which I've had for 30+ years but If I were starting now I'd be straight down to Warco. However, those 30 odd years ago the economy mill/drill I had was pretty dreadful and I got rid of that for a Sharp, which was £2000 then

Rod

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 10/08/2014 15:17:33