Build threads.

.

Thanks, David

Sounds like a good plan

MichaelG.

First, I would argue that the diversity of this forum is no greater than many others. The astronomy forum I visit has extended threads about photographing tardigrades, the weather in France and the latest John Lewis advert...

As for those who have had yet another poke at astronomy, the topic has a long history in Model Engineer. One index lists 104 articles on telescopes and 34 classed as being 'astronomical', not including book reviews such as 'Fireside Astronomy reviewed in 1904. I'm not quite sure how one of the magazines (minority) interests can be seen as not being acceptable as a minority interest on the forum?

I have fiddled about with the topic titles to allow those who want their forum activity unpolluted by subjects outside their comfort zone to avoid them more easily, but please don't forget this is the forum for both Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop - and the latter magazine caters for a wider range of interests - MEW is for to engineering tools, techniques and materials that may be in the context of any hobby from vehicle restoration to mechanical art.

As for build threads, from my perspective, I think that the problem we have is that very few people have actually posted build threads on this forum and most of them (including my Adept one) are progressing too slowly.

Back in the days before I was editor, I posted a 'tutorial' thread on machining a steam engine cylinder from solid. David actually mentioned it in MEW, but I don't think it got a single comment... so I assumed it was either not very interesting or not very good and didn't repeat the exercise.

I think experienced builders probably want to access the more specialised experience of, say, loco or traction engine builders which deters them from posting here, but I would welcome someone having a go at a build of a more involved/specialist project, especially if it focused on the more challenging aspects.

If it would help for moderators to be a bit more active in moving irrelevant 'chit chat' out of build threads, then if the 'owners' of such threads ask for this to be done, we can.

I have tweaked the title and sub-title of the 'Work in Progress' topic, as it implied it was just for photos. It's now clearer that it's also the place for build threads.

</sermon>

Neil

It's all fine and dandy wanting build threads on this site - but it's forum not a magazine with paid contributors.

I've produced a number of build threads:

https://stevewithnell.wordpress.com/2009/04/ - My version of the Victoria

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=98041 - My Stuart Coombes build (unfinished)

https://whittlev8.wordpress.com/2010/10/ - Making the crankshaft for the Whittle V8

Fact is it takes a lot of effort to produce a build thread. After every machining stage you have to stop, take some photo's, mess about making sure the lighting is right for the features you are planning to show. Then you have to write up to match the photos and upload the photo's.

I probably won't bother again. Garry is making heroic effort pressing on with "My Little Engine", but the effort to keep it going should not be underestimated (particularly keeping those machines chip free... ).

If everyone contributed just one build soup to nuts, then happy days, but no one should be under the impression that a handful of people are going to produce build threads ad infinitum for the entertainment of others.

So what happens is the reverse - someone posts "how do I?" and a load of people contribute an answer - some of those having decades of experience. Tons of value in that, even if it's bee-keeping!

I could ask why are there NO team builds?

Steve

Doesn't excite me either. You wanna have a go at me too - just because my mindset doesn't conform to the one that you think is "correct"?

My first thought when I saw this thread was that build threads will happen and be viable naturally if that's what people want. You don't have to force, or even encourage, them - there's plenty of room for all. And berating people who don't share your enthusiasm would seem to be counter-productive, not to mention mildly offensive.

(.... and no, I don't care much about beekeeping threads either - which is why I just move on and leave them to those that do).

Edited By Bandersnatch on 12/11/2015 21:50:55

I feel that on public forums to post a build thread you have to be a certain type of person. One with a lot of interest and a lot of patience.

You also need to either learn to ignore or grow a thicker skin as there will always be the ones who even though welded to an armchair, will know better.

Definitely no room for wilting daisy's Just because there are not oodles of back slapping posts does not mean that the work is passing by unnoticed, just that 'like' posts tend to distract from the flow of work. Also a fine line between showing too much and too little.

Too little and the inexperienced cannot follow on but 27 pictures, all of a main bearing cap, tends to make most peoples eyes glass over.

I wouldn't regard myself as a model engineer (too many vices for that ) nor am I particularly interested in machining . However, I am an engineer, and I am interested in engineering and the theory and understanding that goes with it.

The subject of build diaries is a difficult one. Some are boring and uninformative, basically just a series of pictures with no explanation, leaving you wondering how did they do that, or how did they ensure that those features lined up, or why they bothered? On the other hand it is very time consuming to write a coherent and informative build diary with some form of overall narrative. I would regard that by 'Garry_C' as one of the best on here. It has also been good to see him learn, and then move on to more complex operations under his own steam. I run a build diary for my traction engines on the TT forum:

**LINK**

If anybody cares to skim through they will notice that there are very few replies, unless I've asked a specific question. That seems to be the nature of most build diaries, good or bad. However, there is a 'thanks' button on TT so people can show appreciation, so at least you know it's being read. I also post occasionally on MEM, although there, again, with one exception, I get few or no replies. So why don't I post here? Let's look at some of the comments I've had in response to posts over time, in no particular order:

1. I have a well equipped workshop with mostly ex-industrial machine tools, so the techniques and methods I use are of no relevance to the average model engineer

2. I regularly use a CNC mill, but that's cheating and shouldn't be allowed - and as for 3D printing, well really, quite beyond the pale in polite society

3. I am a cheque book engineer

4. I've got an engineering degree so I can't possibly be any good compared to the man in his shed

I also run a theory thread on TT, although it has been in obeyance for some while due to other pressures:

**LINK**

Clearly this thread is specifically related to traction engines and is therefore probably best hosted on a traction engine specific forum. However, I would never attempt this type of thread here. Why not? This forum has always had a bit of an 'edge' and there's nothing wrong with that. In the past I've been involved in full and frank (!) discussions on bevel gear theory and the design and manufacture of worms and worm wheels amongst other things. And very interesting discussions they have been. However, I get the impression that the forum has become much more dogmatic, with many 'experts' laying down the law with no quarter given. The thread I started on helical gear theory got rather hijacked by some long and rambling posts, which is largely why I decided to duck out.

I have suggested to a moderator that rather than a 'Tea Room' area we need a 'Wine Bar' area (pun intended) but sadly it seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Andrew

PS: Sorry about the puns, that's what happens when your formative years are the 1970s

Not to mention 13 minutes of video parting off a component under power cross-feed. Hope he's using cellulose paint to finish the engine, if he uses enamel I'll have to upgrade my broadband speed to watch the "here is my paint drying" video! 😴

To be fair though he obviously has put a lot of work into presenting the thread, including the faultless cleaning down before each photo! Shame to see him run off (again) when it was all going along nicely. Strange.

Martin.

I love this resource, but can anyone justify to me why bee keeping should even get a mention on a model engineering forum?

Andrew, If we get a wine bar will we have to have a smoking room or will that depend on where in the country/world you are? Also, I was looking forward to some interesting stuff on the gears but it did all start to get a bit anal in the end (with lots of boring links etc - something I was guilty of as well) which was a shame.

I like to think that I offer constructive input when possible - or what passes as humour in my mind otherwise and that works for me.

If people want to close it down then there are plenty of other places I could go to amuse my self (I like the Boxford group) so it does not bother me much, but it does seem that the majority are happy with things as they were (it seemed ok before all the extra subjects to my mind) based on the number of complaints v those that like the status-quo. Clearly everyone else is happy enough with things as they can't be bothered to comment either way? Why change stuff around for the hand full that complain when Neil pointed out that there are a great number of users who are registered?

Mark

There is number of "Views" data here in the Latest Posts listings, so you not only know if it's being read but by how many.

Surely we are a "broad church". I am a member of a small motorcycle club: a chat about bikes but also many other things like keeping chickens, decorating houses, rugby and many other things. I am told that knitting circles frequently talk about computers.

Personally I like reading about Clive's bees since I know nothing about beekeeping.

Getting to the subject of the thread, anything that can improve my knowledge of workshop practises is welcome and that includes making specific models. I do admire those who post such details particularly how some keep lathes etc clean during machining.

JA

I love this resource, but can anyone justify to me why bee keeping should even get a mention on a model engineering forum?

It's an off-topic area, but technically interesting, I may learn something new and my life is spent learning new things

Model engineering stuff interests me because there is casting welding machining metallurgy threading milling mathematics mechanical-dynamics boilers boilermaking soldering and a whole bunch of other technical stuff I'm going to spend my life learning and I hope, mastering

If we ever move to the country then I can ask Clive about bees and any forums he uses and any tips he can provide

This site is a technical repository of human knowledge with a thousand plus years of experience on a multitude of disciplines which a member can draw upon

.

fizzy,

I find posts like yours [quoted ^^^] very tiresome:

But I would defend your right to make them.

MichaelG.

I also run a theory thread on TT, although it has been in obeyance for some while due to other pressures:

**LINK**

Clearly this thread is specifically related to traction engines and is therefore probably best hosted etc etc

--------------

It's a dead link for many of us

An exclusive club for members only

Not all of us want to be members of exclusive clubs whose collective knowledge is hidden from the world at large, the power of the internet is open learning and sharing that knowledge openly

It's probbly a very good forum, but as an "outsider", I will never know

I also had a look at HMEM and MEM out of interest (had to hunt via google)

Seriously dedicated sites focussed almost exclusively on the building of models. period.

Many of us do not have that level of commitment, we dabble, it's a hobby, a bit here, a bit there

If I ever got really serious then I would look at these places and sift through the huge amount of detail they contain on a myriad of projects, but I simply aint got the time

Back to work now, places to go, stuff to do... will be done by midnight... as with most days...

I think that what is great about Clives bee keeping snippets, is that they are just that. They often raise questions and these are answered with a short informative answer. Sometimes I admit they can lead to a (in my opinion) too long discourse (usually by others) , but when this happens I stop reading. Also if you create a thread with a title of "what did you do today" then I think it is fair game, especially when you consider the number of people who are interested.

Whilst I don't follow many build threads I am grateful to those who take the trouble to post them and would never discourage or worse criticise their work.

Dean Clarkes fantastic thread on the supercharged V12 2 stroke is probably my favorite but there have been others.

I am always very disappointed when any thread descends into criticism or personal attacks as I believe it can take quite a lot of courage to post on here especially if you are a beginner and this coupled with the lack of apparent interest mentioned by others is probably why there aren't as many as there should be.

I have mentioned before the cyclic nature of this forum, so I think that this will change over time.

Regards.

David.

You don't have to read every post, I certainly don't and often skim through a lot of them, then a real gem crops up and I'm hooked. I must say I think a number of people are a tad narrow minded when it comes to appropriate topics.

I know this is an engineering forum but surely there is room for the odd off topic comment. I see the bees and astronomy are getting a bit of stick here and I for one love both topics, despite only having a passing interest in both subjects.

Build topics are fine as well but need to be done with care to prevent them being a bit too long. In this regard I blame the digital camera, why take ten pictures when one would do.

Live and let live and don't dare touch the bees!

Doug

From my point of view, any build thread I started in connection with anything I do is likely to take months, or even years, before it reaches a conclusion. The problem is that this is a hobby which comes after lots of other things which means that any project can quite easily come to a halt for a few weeks, or longer. Therefore, any build thread would be likely to disappear for a while which is not really the best way to keep people interested.

Then, as someone else has said, there is the problem of documenting and photographing everything - more time!

Plus, of course, the important point that I am in this hobby to learn by trying things out, education by experimentation I call it - and along the way have garnered an impressive list of things that have gone wrong, such as setting the lathe running forward when it should have gone backwards etc. In fact, I've probably made more mistakes than I've had successes.

So I won't be doing any build threads anytime soon.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

From my point of view, any build thread I started in connection with anything I do is likely to take months, or even years, before it reaches a conclusion.

That's my problem too. I dig threads up out of the bowels of ME as I progress but it's slow going. Three months has just been spent chopping up a giant steel billet with a hacksaw lashup on my drummond, then I'm going to have a go at making a decent fixed steady, the standard issue FS is a bit weedy.

I used to wonder how engineering prototypes overran by years and cost hundreds of millions more than budgeted on the BBC news but I'm slowly getting the bigger picture

ady (skiving off for an hour)

Edited By Ady1 on 13/11/2015 16:44:19