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Why is everything you buy such rubbish!!
| Steve Garnett | 07/11/2010 21:26:30 |
| 837 forum posts 27 photos | I never thought that British cars were wonderful since 1970 something, when I bought a Toyota Celica. The bodywork was crap, but the engine and transmission were brilliant. Yeah, we lost our way - but in a large part that was because we became complacent when we shouldn't have. Several governments have varying degrees of culpability in what happened as well... |
| Mark P. | 07/11/2010 21:53:57 |
 634 forum posts 9 photos | Whoops looks like I opened Pandora's box here chaps!!
Thanks for all your thoughts, think that we're on the same wavelength,just a shame that all our manufacturing has gone. Brunell and co. would be turning in their graves if they could see the state of this country now.
Regards Pailo. |
| Stub Mandrel | 07/11/2010 21:56:54 |
 4318 forum posts 291 photos 1 articles | We have short memories... In the 1970s anything made of plastic or from China fell apart. Japanese stuff was Ok. In 2010 you will hardly find any consumer good made of metal - well designed plastic goods with new (or better used) plastic materials are what we expect. Japanese stuff is now better than our stuff, most Chinese stuff is as good as the Japanese stuff and the Indian stuff now fills the bargain basement. Truth is, pound for pound, something like a mini-lathe made in China has greater capabilities, quality and accuracy than something like an 'Adept' which was the entry-level 'mini lathe' of its day. I accept a lot of crap tooling comes out of the east, but a lot of very usable stuff does too, and if you can buy a box of quality drill bits for the price of a couple of Dormer bits, who will blame you for doing the former? I bet nearly all the computers we are using are largely Chinese - and they work with a level of reliability and complexity you would NEVER have found in any consumer electronics a few decades ago. They would not be putting people into space if they couldn't get their engineering right. The only hope for us is that as Chinese society changes we will have to start paying a decent price for what we get (the Yen is kept artificially low so the Chinese can stockpile dollars - the joke is the value of those dollars is dropping...) Did you here any of John Humpries reports last week? For what it's worth, ten years ago I bought my wife a Dyson vacuum. Something broke on it every few months, which they readily and cheerily replaced on request. But it was so under-engineered (clips held on by tiny dimples, for example) I just gave up in disgust in the end. And that's supposed to be the paragon of modern British engineering. Sorry to0 rant... Neil |
| ady | 07/11/2010 22:00:14 |
| 612 forum posts 50 photos | The French did better than our lot, they've hung onto their most important industries because their elected representatives really do help people. Look at the French car industry, you could hardly call the 2cv and renault 5 paragons of incredibleness compared to British Leyland. In Britain, anything we have which is good, like Cadbury, gets flogged off and shipped out, while anything going through a bad patch gets abandoned. DeGaulle told CAT when it was going to move out of France they would never sell another CAT product in his country...the actuaries poked their calculators and the French factory stayed put. Over here in Britain our "representatives" in parliament didn't lift a pinkie when Caterpillar quit Uddingston. Consecutive British governments have overseen 30 years of asset stripping and not lifted a finger. |
| ady | 07/11/2010 22:19:27 |
| 612 forum posts 50 photos | The Hawker p.1121 Canned in the 1957 defence review. The p.1127, which survived the review, ended up as the harrier jump jet. |
| Steve Garnett | 07/11/2010 23:19:11 |
| 837 forum posts 27 photos | Posted by Stub Mandrel on 07/11/2010 21:56:54: I bet nearly all the computers we are using are largely Chinese - and they work with a level of reliability and complexity you would NEVER have found in any consumer electronics a few decades ago. That would only be true if you are Chinese, and think that Taiwan should still be part of China... I think you'll find that the Taiwanese Quanta Computer Incorporated is the largest laptop manufacturer in the world (by quite a long way), and that most of the others are made there too. The Americans have some considerable restrictions on the technology that they are prepared to let the Chinese manufacture in terms of computing, one way or another, and computing is the one major area where the Chinese don't have anything like the world domination in manufacture that they clearly desire. We use Chinese sub-contract manufacture - it's way cheaper than getting things like injection moulding, for instance, done in the UK. Okay, the reject rate is higher, but the cost differential more than covers that. We're seriously considering using one of the Chinese PCB manufacturers as well - the UK firm we've used before is expensive, and offering a slightly worse turn-around time. But if we do, we will be looking very carefully at the manufacturing quality - something that we haven't really had to do with the UK firm... |
| Terryd | 07/11/2010 23:28:41 |
 1946 forum posts 179 photos | Posted by ady on 07/11/2010 22:00:14: Consecutive British governments have overseen 30 years of asset stripping and not lifted a finger. No Ady, You're wrong (this is not really political, excuse me if it seem so) They've been doing it since at least the early 1960s, and doing it actively, egged on by Banks, accountants and free market capitalists who wanted to sell the family silver to make a short term profit because we were going to be an oil rich nation with our North Sea wealth which was supposed to be invested in infrastructure. Yet another fairy story by our governments. The rich got richer once again (but the poor wot got the blame). Why is it that the French, Spanish, Germans, Americans and Japanese own and run most of our services and successful manufacturing now. It was a deliberate policy from the 80s and 90s and we know who was in power then. Terry |
| Chris Trice | 07/11/2010 23:31:53 |
 1376 forum posts 10 photos | Most people would be scared if they realised what percentage of goods in your average B&Q were manufactured in China. About 90%. While a cheap product in the name of competition is a consideration, the primary motivator is the low wholesale price allowing more profit even with a lower retail price. Unfortunately, the typical buyer at a DIY store doesn't know what they're buying. They choose primarily by price usually. Some finished products are cheaper than what you can buy the materials they are made from for. Edited By Chris Trice on 07/11/2010 23:32:46 |
| Terryd | 07/11/2010 23:38:18 |
1946 forum posts 179 photos | Hornby and Bachmann now produce some of the most beautiful OO model locomotives and rolling stock ever made. It is moulded and assembled in mainland China and is of incredible detail. Yet another planet away from the British products from Margate in the past. They use the most up to date cadcam systems and machines in modern factories and are able to produce short runs which makes a much wider range of reliable models available than ever at reasonable prices. What can you say? They are inexpensive but certainly not cheap. Terry |
| Steve Garnett | 08/11/2010 01:08:34 |
| 837 forum posts 27 photos | Posted by Terryd on 07/11/2010 23:28:41: They've been doing it since at least the early 1960s, and doing it actively, egged on by Banks, accountants and free market capitalists who wanted to sell the family silver to make a short term profit because we were going to be an oil rich nation with our North Sea wealth which was supposed to be invested in infrastructure. Yet another fairy story by our governments. The rich got richer once again (but the poor wot got the blame). There were other issues that were more dubious than that, as well. For instance, look at the British Aircraft Industry. No, not BAe systems, but the small plane industry we used to have. There was a manufacturer called Auster, who got taken over and amalgamated into British Executive and General Aviation Ltd (BEAGLE). They were part of Pressed Steel and they got taken over by the British Motor Corporation, who in turn didn't really want BEAGLE, and it was effectively nationalised by the Government of the day. This was in 1966. The first and only time they went back and asked for more support, the government promptly put them into receivership. No buyer found - effectively, end of story. Why did the then Minister of Technology do this? Don't know for sure, but it is suspected that he was rather more interested in putting all his eggs into one basket and developing that massive commercial success that sold hundreds of planes otherwise known as, er, Concorde... Same thing happened with the British Space Industry - remember that? We've always had an excellent record at developing products - dammit, we invented most of what passes for mechanical industry, but when it comes to putting it into mass produced practice, or even keeping it going at all, we have always been thwarted by governments who think they know best, but actually know NOTHING. I know which ones have been mostly to blame, but it's not just a one-sided game, even though it looks like it sometimes. |
| Sam Stones | 08/11/2010 07:20:22 |
 922 forum posts 332 photos | Didn't we teach -
`How to take the food right out of our mouths'? As a Lancashire lad, I saw it happening with the textile industry in the 50's!!!
The education of overseas students is considered to be an important dollar earner here in Oz .
 I don't expect to be around when this country goes down the gurgler in a few years time, but my children and grandchildren may.
Sam Edited By Sam Stones on 08/11/2010 07:27:49 |
| KWIL | 08/11/2010 09:14:14 |
| 3681 forum posts 70 photos | I have to say that I will only buy Dormer drills but they are made in Brazil. |
| Eric Cox | 08/11/2010 09:41:30 |
 557 forum posts 38 photos | <<In The UK goods must be of a 'Merchantable Quality' and 'Fit for
Purpose' under present legislation.>> So what happens when you subscribe to a magazine and find that it contains drawings with incorrect or missing dimensions. Do you return it and ask for a refund of your subscription as the magazine contravenes the "Sale of Goods Act" |
| blowlamp | 08/11/2010 09:56:25 |
 1885 forum posts 111 photos | In that instance Eric, you would probably find a clause to the effect that no guarantee could be made to the accuracy of the magazine's content. However, if all the text and pictures were badly blurred and/or pages missing etc, then you might have a case.
Martin. |
| Bogstandard | 08/11/2010 10:07:19 |
| 263 forum posts | This country did a major change around in the 70's & 80's. We swapped over from being a producer to a money grabbing 'yuppie' culture. The same sort of thing happened in the US as well, we just followed along like lambs to the slaughter. So most our manufacturing went the way of the Dodo, and we started to 'buy in' everything that the money culture wanted. The far east came to the rescue and gave us all what we wanted. Cad and CNC took over, and soon everything could be designed and made out of cheaper materials, with obsolescence built in. Instead of something lasting a lifetime, things are now made to be thrown away after just a few short years. Hence us older ones term it as junk, and youngsters call it great, until a new model comes out., then the 'gotta have' takes over. If you look deeper into Chinese production methods and products, you will find that they are up with the best of them, include in that the quality.India is going the same way. What we see mainly are items made down to a price for the box shifters, who call themselves retailers. Who buy cheap and sell at large profits by the container load. Most have no idea of the quality or even about the product. If something goes wrong, it is cheaper for them just to give you a new item rather than repair it. Give it another ten years, when China has really got it's act together. Once that happens, the US, Japan, Korea and ourselves will all be 'has beens' in the manufacturing and quality stakes, and maybe even the power stakes as well. BTW, I am not a great supporter of what has and is happening, just someone who takes an interest, and if you look around you, you too can see what is happening as well. Bogs |
| ady | 08/11/2010 11:52:01 |
| 612 forum posts 50 photos | Frank Whittle would have been richer than God himself if the British Government hadn't nicked the patent off him and handed it to the yanks for nowt. "There ya go boys, free jet engines!" Even Bill Gates would be lower middle class compared to Whittle. If I discovered how to make energy from seawater I'd keep it a secret, Britain aint a good place to be too smart. |
| oilcan | 08/11/2010 12:35:56 |
| 34 forum posts | We're seriously considering using one of the Chinese PCB manufacturers as well - the UK firm we've used before is expensive.
personaly, I blame the greedy workers. Fancy demanding 1st world wages to live in a 1st world country. lets all try and put the buggers out of work ay? then we can all moan about the increase in taxation to pay for the welfare bill.
i remember reading a few years ago about traffic cones. one of the leading manufactures in europe is (still is?) british. when they tried to break into the german market, ( E.U. rules on competative tendering and all that crap) the government (german) kept on moving the goal posts to try and stop them meeting their specifications so as to protect there own manufactures. i don't blame the germans for trying to protect thier own industry, i just wish we could be more like that.
if , as i was told as a young man , "the world doesn't owe us a living" is true , then perhaps we should owe each other a living instead ? and start reading the "made in..." labels of what we buy.
we harp on about human rights, personal freedom, dignity at work etc. then run head long into trying to make the worlds largest dictatorship the richest country on the planet.
I would call for the revival of the "I'm backing britain" campaign of the sixties, but what would be the point? We seem to make bugger all these days. |
| Terryd | 08/11/2010 13:03:40 |
1946 forum posts 179 photos | Hi Ady, Out of interest, Frank Whittle worked on the development of the engine in Ladywood works, Lutterworth near where I live and there is a full size model of the Gloster G40 (also known as the G28/39) on the traffic Island which is on the approach road to the town about a mile from me. However another version of the jet engine was patented by Hans Von Ohain in Germany at around the same time as Whittle's and was flown in the Heinkel HE178. This flight took place nearly two years before the flight of the G40. Ohain's improved second engine also flew before the G40 but this time only about 6 weeks earlier. I suspect that the Americans would have grabbed this one as a spoil of war anyway and Ohain would have been seen as the 'father of the jet engine' rather than Whittle.  Terry |
| NJH | 08/11/2010 13:45:04 |
 2314 forum posts 139 photos | Hi Terry A bit off topic but is that the Gloster "Gormless" do you know? I recall reading about it many years ago in a book by their test pilot , Bill Waterton but , of course, I can't locate it now ! Regards Norman Edited By NJH on 08/11/2010 13:45:28 |
| Ian S C | 08/11/2010 14:00:30 |
 7468 forum posts 230 photos | The German Junkers engine was proberbly a more advanced design being an axial flow type instead of the Centrfigal compressor of the British engines by RR, DH etc. Just a note the BBC TV news is on at the moment, and they are saying about a little trouble QANTAS is having with some of there RR engines, oh dear. Ian S C Edited By Ian S C on 08/11/2010 14:05:02 |
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All Forum Topics > Workshop Techniques > Why is everything you buy such rubbish!!