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HELP Wanted! Cutting Metal - But By What Means?

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ChrisH	30/11/2009 23:47:49
1023 forum posts 30 photos	I am going to have to obtain some means of mechanically cutting metal but by what means I am undecided. I would appreciate any views or opinions on what others have used and the pros & cons of their choice. Times are hard (!) so a low cost option for me is a major factor, as is the space it will take up as I have but a small workshop, and if it has to be lifted onto a workbench then weight is also a factor (I'm not getting younger!). So far I have considered: Hacksaw. Using a hand hacksaw is hard work and for me it's a no-no. A power hacksaw is available, Silverline do a power hacksaw, which looks like a hand one but with a motor for £50. Sieg do one which looks similar but has a vice built-in for £330 - some difference! But are either any good - both use 'normal' hacksaw blades? The Silverline would have to be used with a vice on the bench, ones with a built in vice could cut outdoors if portable enough. Of course there are more 'professional' ones, but it's cost and space again. What else is there? Bandsaw. There are a number of bandsaws on the market, all seem to take up a fair amount of room and start from about £220-ish so not that cheap. The bench one I saw seems heavy. The Clark at £220 offers horizontal and vertical cutting, but is the vertical mode good and useful, or just a bit more than just a gimmick? A bandsaw be used outside, keeping the workshop clean, but needs a fair bit of space to be stowed it would seem. How do others cope with it in a small workshop? ChopSaws. I know these are good, but not too cheap - the Makita seems the cheapest at £190-ish - but I know chopsaws are also very noisy. Could also be used outside but the noise could/would upset the neighbours. So all you old hands at this hobby, what do you use and why and what would you recommend? ChrisH
Jim Whetren	01/12/2009 01:00:40
50 forum posts 1 photos	Hello Chris, For what it's worth, I use the Metal cutting Bandsaw from Axminster. (£165 when I bought it; now on offer at £199) It does not have the vertical facility but it is supplied with a self assembly metal stand which with the addition of some castors from B&Q, allows it to be easilly pulled out from against the wall to use it. It also has an excellent quick set cam lock vice which I have used with a small mod to slice 1/8" off 3/4" square blocks stood on end. I have also cut a 1/2" length of 2" Dia. MS in half. The facing cut needed to clean up is less than 0.5mm. I find this meets all my sawing needs. I have never had the blade come off and I don't use coolant. (usual disclaimer) Best regards, Jim
JasonB	01/12/2009 07:27:28
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	Warco do quite a compact Bench mounted one, and the usual 4x6 that most other suppliers do. Jason
Michael Cox 1	01/12/2009 08:13:10
555 forum posts 27 photos	Hi Chris, I cannot comment on the motorised hacksaw because I have no experience of them. I have an Axminster 4 x 6 bandsaw that cost around £105 2 years ago. It is very good and copes with all my cutting needs. I do use the saw in the vertical mode but would recommend that you throw away the flimsy saw table supplied and make sometig more solid. However, this saw is big with a footprint of about 1200 x 600. It is quiet in use and it does not make much mess at all. Before buying the bandsaw I used an old, cheap mitre saw fitted with a 9" metal cutting abrasive disc to convert it to a chopsaw. This is extremely moisy and grit and dust go everywhere. You cannot use it anywhere near machine tools such as a lathe. In addition it is a fire hazard. Hot sparks shoot out a considerable distance. Definitely for outside use only. The abrasive discs do not last long. I also have a 4 1/2" angle grinder with a stand. Both came from Aldi /Lidl and cost only a few £s. I use this with Norton thin metal cutting discs for cutting hardened steel but the maximum size of material that can be cut it limited to circa 1" thickness. As above it is noisy, dirty and a fire hazard. Mike
KWIL	01/12/2009 09:04:45
3681 forum posts 70 photos	I have a 6x4 bandsaw bought from WARCO, needed careful setting up and extra lub in the gearbox, but will cut all day. Still on the original blade guide bearings but not for much longer. Careful adjustment of the cutting weight will ensure longer blade life. Buy decent blades, I personally buy them by the 100ft reel and weld my own. I agree about the flimsy table but it has had little use.
charadam	01/12/2009 11:04:07
185 forum posts 6 photos	I use a Maktec (cheapo Makita) 14" abrasive chop saw. Use it outdoors and with ear defenders! It cost me about £70 4 years ago. Discs can be had for about £3 a pop. There's one on Ebay for £60 but you will need a 110V transformer. Edited By David Clark 1 on 01/12/2009 13:49:44
Circlip	01/12/2009 11:48:32
1723 forum posts	You don't mention your Lathe ChrisH? If you look at some of the old adverts for Myford, you could buy attachments to cover virtually every "Garden shed" need. One I remember was a circular saw one for wood cutting, another a Fileing set up, can't think they would have left metal cutting out. Regards Ian. Advert overlap, Again, at least my BIG post chucked them out of the way. Edited By Circlip on 01/12/2009 11:50:02 Edited By Circlip on 01/12/2009 11:50:22
russell	02/12/2009 04:20:43
142 forum posts	has anyone used the recip. tpye saw (eg, sawzall) - mine doesnt seem to have any provision for mounting in any way, but i was thinking it could turn into a poor mans power hacksaw. (AUD70 ex aldi) regards russell
JasonB	02/12/2009 07:32:38
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	The problem with a Recip' saw is that because the blade is only held at one end it will tend to wander. Also the short stroke will have a job clearing swarf from the cut Jason
ChrisH	02/12/2009 10:42:42
1023 forum posts 30 photos	Thank you to all who have offered advice on saws. It seems clear that a bandsaw is what I need, a bench one I think, for smallest space. The Warco one at £142 looks very good, so does the Axminster one but it is another £80 or so at £225, BUT, the Axminster does 4"x6" against 3.5"x5" for the Warco, and looks as if it may be a little more substantial. Anyone with experience of either, and is the slightly larger capacity of the Axminster worth the extra eighty quid do you think? ChrisH
Ian S C	02/12/2009 10:52:17
7468 forum posts 230 photos	If you mounted the recip saw vertical-motor at the top,above a table for the work,that would solve the swarf problem.IAN S C
JasonB	02/12/2009 12:47:43
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	I still think you would clog the teeth on anything over 1" stock as the stroke of the blade is quite short compared with a power hacksaw, so the swarf will just get rubbed back and forth, gravity won't pull it down out of the cut. You would also have the proiblem of the blade trying to lift the work off the table if it was mounted on the top as they cut on the pull. Only you know what sizes you will need to be cutting so its hard to say if the extra capacity is worth it Jason Edited By JasonB on 02/12/2009 12:48:46
Geoff Theasby	02/12/2009 13:17:47
615 forum posts 21 photos	I fancy making some wind chimes as in ME recently. I have some 3mm brass sheet which should serve for the striker and weight, but how to cut a circle from a large sheet? I could use a hacksaw, files and lots of elbow grease, but might it be worth while to take it to a laser cutting company and ask them to cut out a circle from it for me? Any idea of the likely cost? Can you even cut brass this way? Regards Geoff
JasonB	02/12/2009 16:24:59
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	It can be done on the lathe either by sandwiching between a disc of wood held in the lathe and another to apply pressure from the tailstock with light cuts. If there is a hole in the ctr of the disc then add a pin which will help stop it going AWOL id you get it wrong and have a dig in. A treppaning tool in the brill or mill will also do the job. Jason
mgj	02/12/2009 18:12:00
1017 forum posts 14 photos	I agree with Jason - 4jaw or faceplate with dogs and trepan it. As for the larger view. I have an Axminster (Arctrade euro do hte same modle I think if you prefer red over white) power hacksaw which is superb.Costs a little more than the cheapest bandsaws, very good for bar and square, not so hot for sheet, but adequate if you use Jasons clamping suggestion ot stop the (thicker) sheet flexing.. bandsaws offer more flexiblity in use I think, but as modellers we don't often cut sheet, and when I do i just put it in the mill and use a slitting saw. Other stuff I use a proper sheetsaw - i've had to use it a couple of times in 5 years, so on that basis the performance of the power hack per £ spent is pretty good. Cuts straight, evenly and the blade doesn't jump the sprockets, and replacements are not expensive! A high grade top end bandsaw is a different thing.
Geoff Theasby	02/12/2009 20:38:58
615 forum posts 21 photos	Thanks guys, but I don't have enough swing in the lathe or mill to cut a 7" disc. (Unimat 3 + milling attachment) Maybe I could do it in the pillar drill? Hmmm! Regards Geoff
martin leslie	02/12/2009 20:45:26
8 forum posts	I have the Warco bandsaw and with a small modification to the vice, and the use of bi-metal blades, can't fault it. Spend some time setting it up and it can cut with suprising accuracy. I shortened the stand by 5 inches, put wheels on the back and it sits under my workbench. Just pull it out when needed. I have just cut 4 inches off the end of a length of full size railway line and it was 25 thou out or parrellel although it did take nearly 35 minutes. Sure beats using a hacksaw!!
wheeltapper	02/12/2009 20:50:30
424 forum posts 98 photos	You would need a really slow speed to trepan a 7" disc. the only chart I have to hand suggests 95 rpm for 4" so for 7" you'd need about 15 or less. not many pillar drills go that slow, they aren't built for that sort of use. you would be better off drilling holes round the circumference then filing. just my tuppence worth cheers Roy
Billy Mills	03/12/2009 00:58:22
377 forum posts	Hi Metalworkers My vote would be for the H/V bandsaw fitted with a bimetal blade. They are capable of chopping through thick lumps that you just would not want to hacksaw. With a few simple additions you can also do some quite fine sawing. The vertical mode is useful for some sheet work however the wide blade rules out cutting mild steel jigsaws. Do resist the temptation to fit a "metal" blade to a "woodworking" bandsaw if you want to saw mild steel. The metal cutting bandsaw really is a different animal, the frame is much stiffer to cope with the blade tension and thickness, the very important guides are much heavier and the blade speed slower. The MachineMart website has a downloadable PDF manual for their CBS45MD which also includes the adjustment procedure. When sawing metals for more than a min the blade can get very hot, I always use some kind of cutting/cooling fluid to extend the blade life and to be able to pick up the sawn parts after sawing without first aid. After you have had a red/white/blue/green bandsaw around it becomes one of those tools that you don't want to be without when chopping a stock length of 50mm M/S into 30 bits 75mm long. Regards, Alan
Gordon W	03/12/2009 09:36:58
2011 forum posts	some more on cutting:_ I' d love a power hacksaw but... For heavy stuff I use angle grinder, smaller sections a 4 1/2" grinder with thin cutting blade. brass sheet etc a jig saw, mark- out both sides and put grease or cutting oil on underside, then you can see the line to cut to. For accurate work hand saw, does'nt really take that long, and less cleaning up.

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