Silver Solder Stocks

I've just been looking for something in the workshop and realised that I have too much silver solder!

I found some Easiflo No1 and had a play with it; its wonderful stuff as there seems to be some runny component that gets through joints and leaves behind a less runny component that makes a nice fillet, ideal for simulating castings. Is this still available??

I also found some Silverflo 24 which I believe can be used in step-soldering as it is high melting point and does not remelt when using Easiflo 2 or Silverflo 55.

I've Had a play but the melting point is too high for most of my stuff so I've put it on Ebay in the hope of generating some funds for my present project!

I've also found some Easiflo 2 and some Silverflo 55 which will come in handy.

Brian

You might be able to find the equivalent in the US but it is banned in Europe due to its cadmium content. Perhaps it could make a comeback after Brexit

Russell.

Quote "You might be able to find the equivalent in the US but it is banned in Europe due to its cadmium content. Perhaps it could make a comeback after Brexit "

Thanks Russell, I wondered if the cadmium content would be a problem. Incidentally, is cadmium a problem when selling privately?

Brian

Edited By Brian Hutchings on 07/02/2017 18:42:12

I wouldn't have thought so, what with old cadmium batteries lying around, it would be a little tricky to police. It just means it's been phased out in a production sense rather than banned in entirety.

Some people still have creosote in their garden storage and on farms, it doesn't mean they have to dump it.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 07/02/2017 19:05:43

Michael- w, I do my sheds gates & railings with creosote mixed with old engine oil, I take the gates off for a couple of weeks to give it time to dry so the postman doesn't get any on his clothes,you can still buy the genuine stuff if you know where to get it.beats all this "creocote" imitation stuff.

According to the (temporary) powers that be in Brussels and their UK enforcers, it is illegal to "place cadmium bearing silver solder in the market".

Not only is it illegal to sell it, it is illegal to give it away as samples! The new larger market for cadmium free alloys has to be protected so as not to affect future sales! Existing stocks, in sheds and workshops around the country are impossible to control or police.

Whatever you do decide to do with your easiflo is a personal choice. It is not an offence for you to use it. Just be careful, sensible and responsible. Just don't shout about being prepared to trade it!

Don't blame me or CuP Alloys. We were not part of the stitch up.

Post Brexit? Who knows? There are no stocks of these alloys in Europe. Any past or future supplier is likely to want a 50 kg order to justify restarting production or, put it another way, 6000 rods 1.5mm dia x 500!

If they ever become commercially available again, CuP Alloys will tell you all - loud and clear. But, having now got used to the cadmium free alloys, do you want to change again?

Keith

Many thanks for the clarification Keith. I shall keep the Easiflo 2 for my own use in that case.

Brian

Quote fro HSE .

There are some exceptions, relating to defence, aerospace or safety-related use and anyone wishing to make use of these should consult the European legislation direct. So in theory there must be some being made!

............but has anyone got the eurofriendly stuff to actually work?..........if you have then please tell us how!

Heat! I used this hearth with a Sievert 26kW (2942P) burner. Also used a ceramic insulation blanket.

This burn was with 38% Ag alloy and HT flux

This assembly with 55% Ag, also HT flux

It works. Melting temperatures are only about 30C higher than cadmium bearing alloys.

HTH,

Rod

What is actually illegal is "placing it on the market". So, if you import it for private use that should be OK. If you give some to a friend that is also O.K. but you cannot advertise it for sale. In general second hand products are not covered by these directives so you surplus old stock can be sold? Perhaps that's debatable.

Russell.

As Rod explained, you just need more heat. His approach is spot on. Possibly use a bigger burner and insulation to keep the heat in. You may need a longer life flux like HT5

Watch the flux. When it has melted and started to flow apply the alloy. It is pointless trying to braze until the flux has melted. The joint is simply not hot enough. Do not heat the alloy. Allow it to get its' heat from the joint. Getting the alloy hot is one hing - getting the joint hot enough is another. If the joint is cold the alloy won't flow

GOLDEN RULE FOR SILVER SOLDERING/BRAZING

HEAT THE JOINT NOT THE ROD

Keith

Keith,

I have a Rob Roy boiler (untested) that I silver soldered almost entirely with Easyflo No 2 about 30 years ago. I do not have any solder left - so if I discover leaks during its hydraulic test Im guessing that the new solders with a higher melting temperature would be quite a challenge to use. Or do you think I'd be ok?

PhilH

Oh by the way, having had about 35 years of experience working with our continental friends - I suspect it is only the British who would take notice and apply EU rules. The continentals (from my experience) simply don't ask or avoid them.

Phil H

Bob, the eurofriendly stuff I would assume are the Silverfo types such as Silverflo 24 and Silverflo 55 (Johnson-Matthey).

I have tried both and they seem to be fine allbeit with the previously mentioned slightly higher temperatures (which may be a problem if repairing an existing boiler that used Easyflo).

I found that the Silverfo 24 was a higher temperature than I am likely to use but I still have some Easyflo and Easyflo 2.

Rob,

1) The re-melt temperature of easi-flo2 is higher than the original.

2) Even if it melts ,Easi-flo 2 is totally compatible with 455. 455 will repair any leaks.

3) Any molten silver solder will be retained in the joint gap by capillary action (the fundamental principle behind the process). Ensure a good coverage of flux to prevent oxidation and dewetting of the alloy = another leak. Use HT5 flux.

Bob,

I suggest to anyone struggllng with Silverflo 24 as the first alloy in a step-brazing operation to simply switch to a lower melting point alloy like 438. 438 and 455 work together well.

For more information go to **LINK**

regards

Keith (Hale - no relation to Phil!)

Exhuming this ancient thread as it seemed worth noting that Cadmium bearing Silver Solder does seem to be appearing for sale in a few places in the UK now. I'm presuming it's now OK to sell it again as we aren't members of the the EU who banned the sale of Cadmium bearing Silver Solder noted in previous posts. Recently I was down to my last couple of inches of "old stock" Easy-Flo rod, IMO, the difference in the results with this product and the 55% "Cadmium Free" replacement is night and day, especially on difficult joints/materials.

At ebay I've just bought a 250 gram reel of 5 x 1 mm Cadmium bearing Easy-Flo. Was a bit of a challenge to cut a 600mm or so long 1mm wide strip off it, but well worth the effort when I came to use it on a Stainless Steel joint the other night. The stuff I bought proclaims to be old stock but looks to be in as new condition. A quick google brings up cadmium bearing Easy-Flo 2 as being available from a UK based Model Engineering supplier, albeit at what looks like a rather stiff price.

Hopefully this product range will be come more generally available in time.

This document from the HSE outlines the health risks etc:

**LINK**

I wouldn’t have thought that changing rules on cadmium solder would be top of the U.K. governments priority, particularly in view of this document.

Restrictions on Cadmium are international and not just EU. The UK has taken most (if not all) EU regulations into law post brexit. RoHS certainly ha been and Cadmium is still banned with few a exceptions. Even if old stock is available, it should be avoided because it is toxic.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/eis31.pdf

Robert G8RPI.

Why is it that when something hazardous is taken off the market and replaced with a safer product there is alwys a group who immidiately want to use the old stuff?

regards Martin