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Drill Sharpening Jigs - Advice please.

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korby08/11/2010 21:40:44
37 forum posts
2 photos
In the current edition of Woodworker is a review of a drill sharpening att. for the Tormek grinder. This is a wetstone grinder for wood tools. Thing is a picture of a drill sharpened on it shows unequal facets. The att costs £170 and the grinder £300.
Seems that woodies have very deep pockets compared to us metal bashers.
Peter Gain10/11/2010 21:55:14
103 forum posts
I am surprised to note that no-one in this thread has mentioned the Proxxon drill sharpener. I raised the question of how to get the thing to work in a thread in Jan this year. Never did get any definitive answers. I now use the Harold Hall sharpening rest. The Proxxon has gone back under the bench. The Proxxon brand has been refered to in another thread. Use caution when purchasing this "make". Their more expensive items are EU sourced, but the cheaper products appear to be Far Eastern. "Engineered in Germany" is NOT the same as "Made in Germany"!
Peter Gain.
 
 
 
keithmart22/08/2011 10:21:28
avatar
165 forum posts

Hi


I have just been to our local Lidle and purchased a drill grinder for £19:99. It will sharpen drills from 3 to 10mm and works well.

It also comes with a set of TIN drills in half mm steps, plus two spare grindstones.


I ground a very blunt 10mm drill and drilled through a scrap piece of steel with no problems.


regards

Keith

Leeds UK

Martin Walsh 122/08/2011 13:31:37
113 forum posts
2 photos
I use the proxxon drill sharpener very pleased with it
works well
 
it grinds drill from 3 to 13 mm but you can get adaptors
for below 3mm
 
Best Wishes Martin
 
alan frost22/08/2011 14:39:28
137 forum posts
3 photos
Just to add two penny worth I have owned most of the cheapo sharpening jigs and find with care they can give a good result,including the swing jigs. I had never tried free hand sharpening as I'd read so many threads on how difficult it could be but recently I was lucky enough to get a visit to my workshop when drilling lots of big holes in mild steel (upgrading a trailer to take a couple of tons) by a retired toolmaker. He gave me a demo of freehand sharpening including very small drills, four facet sharpening etc.
A demo with a chance to then try it yourself is worth thousands of words and within literally five minutes I was producing very acceptable results with the promise "The more you do the better you'll get ".
The ability to sharpen any blunt drill within a few seconds without setting up jigs is not as difficult as many would have us believe especially if you can get a demo from an expert and is such a convenient skill,
It became even easier once I cleaned up my wheel with a dressing stick and used a pinchuck and eye loup for small drills. I'm not claiming my sharpened drills cut dead to size (how often does that matter ?) but I keep a good set for that which I use rarely enough that they don't need much sharpening. They don't cut dead to size anyway.The ones I now sharpen freehand cut really well and altho I have n't measured anything , pretty well to size.
I have read somel none positive reports of the drill doctor.

Edited By alan frost on 22/08/2011 14:41:18

John Haine22/08/2011 15:04:00
5563 forum posts
322 photos
There was an article in an early MEW on a simple jig for sharpening small drills to 4 facets using a diamond plate - can't remember the author I'm afraid. It struck me as a very nice design and is on the mental "to make" list (probably at about number 3277!).
chris stephens22/08/2011 16:01:35
1049 forum posts
1 photos
Hi John,
Long time no see. The jig you are talking about is probably the DAG Brown one, or at least it would be if you are talking bot ME not MEW. This jig is indeed a very elegant solution to small drill sharpening and I can heartily recommend it, as I am sure a very large number of ME readers would agree. This is because I believe his jig is the most reproduced tooling of any that has been published in the magazine.
 
By a strange quirk of fate I am at the moment making an up dated version, well an almost complete re-design, that is showing some promise and is certainly easier to use than the original, as it takes out some of the guess work from getting the facets equal.
As the original was so popular, I might consider doing a write up, but I would have to get the go-ahead from Derek first, partly because it is his original idea and partly to find out if he still does the diamond plate. Depending on the availability of his plate depends on whether I design the up date to take his plate or whether to design it to take readily available commercial ones.
 
For those who don't know what I am talking about, take a look at;
chriStephens
NJH23/08/2011 20:15:25
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2314 forum posts
139 photos
Taking Keith's tip I too purchased the Lidl drill sharpener. With a certain amount of scepticism, born of poor experience in the past of other patent devices, I gave it a try on a 3mm, 4,2mm and 7mm which had been languishing in my " Old Drills" drawer.
BINGO - it works! Comes fitted with one specially shaped stone and two spares so hopefully it should sharpen quite a few drills.
Thanks for the tip Keith.
 
Regards
 
Norman
Dave Tointon24/08/2011 06:55:56
49 forum posts
G'Day John,
The best drill sharpener I have come across is the simple hand and eye offhand grinder technique. It takes no time to set up, is cheap and almost always results in a good job. It merely takes a bit of practice to perfect the sort of swooping motion of the right hand and one can see immediately if it is right simply by looking at the drill.
Regards
Dave Tointon
 
Ian S C24/08/2011 12:40:35
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7468 forum posts
230 photos
When you first start with Dave's method, some find it helps if you scribe a line across the tool rest at the correct angle for sharpening, it aid getting the angles equal. Ian S C
Clive Hartland24/08/2011 16:15:23
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2929 forum posts
41 photos
I wonder whether it is worthwhile sharpening drills 3mm and under. Buying in packs of five drills it is not time/cost effective to waste time sharpening them.
Bigger drills of course will be cost effective.
My drill sharpening machine is a 'Meteor' of Swiss origin, I doubt it is made today.

This will take drills from 3mm to about 20mm parallel shank, limited by the length of the groove on the bar and micrometer stop.
Below 3mm I sharpen by hand and eye, or just replace it!
 
Clive
John Shepherd24/08/2011 16:45:48
222 forum posts
7 photos
Re the original post - As I did not find anything that suited me I made my own jig and it features in MEW176 &177.
 
Regards
John Shepherd
John Shepherd24/08/2011 16:46:33
222 forum posts
7 photos
Sorry for duplicate post the site was so slow I thought nothing had happened first time.
 
Regards
John Shepherd

Edited By John Shepherd 1 on 24/08/2011 16:48:29

chris stephens24/08/2011 17:23:50
1049 forum posts
1 photos
Hi Clive,
As a decent quality 3mm drill is about 3 Quid, I think the answer is yes. As for number drills, smaller than No30 (about 3mm) are over 9 each, the answer is even more yes.
chriStephens
 
Steve Wan26/08/2011 06:56:17
131 forum posts
3 photos
Hi John
 
Sorry for the late reply! I got a solution just for that...it will be good to build a sharpening jig than buying as this is endless....so many out there!
 
For drill bits I used the Tormek concept to grind 4 facets sides drill bits. See my photo.
 
For end mills I made a simple tool and cutter jig with influence from Quron, Deckel So and only recently Bristol Cutter grinder from MEW. See my photo.
 
With these 2 jigs one could sharpen anything. But to sharpen the flutes of end mill is a challenge though. Also drill bits smaller than 3mm is best done using a hand grinder for better control than a bench grinder.
 
Steve
mick H05/09/2011 15:08:32
795 forum posts
34 photos
Can anyone give me a recommendation for an effective drill sharpener? I already have a Martek and one of those ubiquitous jigs but results on either are pretty indifferent. I would rather not talk about my attempts at freehand sharpening! I know that there have been threads on this in the past. Is there anything new out there?

Edited By mick H on 05/09/2011 15:14:19

Edited By David Clark 1 on 05/09/2011 19:47:34

Harold Hall 126/10/2011 16:31:55
418 forum posts
4 photos

I came across this thread a few weeks ago and whilst I did not study it in detail soon became aware that sharpening drills was not for most an easy task. This not only with the common economy jig used with the off hand grinder, but also with the much more expensive Proxxon, both of which I have and have had similar findings.

I have though largely mastered the basic jig but as my comments below show I still have some way to go with the Proxxon, if I ever do.

The subtle difference between the Proxxon and the basic jig is that the pivot on the Proxxon is fixed relative to the grinding wheel and the projection of the drill is therefore also fixed. With the basic jig, backing off is controlled by the amount the drill projects. Therefore, after a few drills have been sharpened and the required projections taken note of, interpolating values for other diameters will be very easy and easily measured, there being no need to rotate the drill for differing diameters as is required with the Proxxon.

First, I have to agree that the instructions for both are far from adequate, even though those for the Proxxon would appear to be very detailed. No doubt this is a major factor in the problem the users have. I do not want to sound superior, but I feel a major factor is also that many users do not have sufficient background knowledge to overcome the limitations in the instructions.

When I read the thread I decided to attempt to be of help by adding to my website the basics from my article in MEW relating to drills and drill sharpening. This I have now done and can be found at

http://www.homews.co.uk/page354.html

Hope this helps

As I was going to add to the thread I decided to get out the Proxxon and give it another try. The drill is first fitted with a device that enables it to be accurately rotated 180 degrees between edges and is first set using a cradle for the purpose. The mad thing though is that, this setting is only applicable to a drill in the middle of the range being 8mm diameter, probably, say, between 7 and 9mm. For smaller drills the setting has immediately to be re set by rotating the drill clockwise which can only be done hand held and visually.

Measuring the angle required off the very small sketch in the manual, the angle is 28 degrees for a 3mm drill. For other sizes it is obviously a case of interpolating the required values, typically 14 degrees for 5.5mm drill. For drills larger than 8mm then the drill is rotated anticlockwise again 28 degrees for a 13mm drill. As there is no method of setting these values then they can only be set visually, of course precision is not require.

I decided to carry out a test on an almost new SKF 10mm drill and first drilled a hole, without pilot, into a piece of mild steel and took note of the pressure required.

Next, I set the drills cutting edge vertically, (as I would for the basic jig) first stage above only, and sharpened it. Visually. it did look sharp but the chisel angle looked a little on the small side, rather less than 130 degrees, as did the backing off behind the cutting edges. I again tested it in the mild steel and whilst it did drill it needed very much more force to feed the drill and was obviously not usable.

I then rotated the drill, as indicated above, and resharpened it. This time the chisel angle was far to great and had to call a halt as time had run out. Obviously, the initial rotational angle of the drill in its holder is quite important and as this can only be set visually I have reservations regarding the device.

I will though, when time allows, carry out some more test, perhaps I can come up with some way of setting the angle, other than visually. I do wonder that, as no actual values for the rotation are given, has the draughtsman taken licence and exaggerated the angles to make them more visible, maybe the 28 degrees is not correct.


KWIL26/10/2011 18:30:43
3681 forum posts
70 photos
Chris,
 
I do not know who you are paying £3 to for a decent 3mm drill, I use Dormer PS2 drills from Greenwood Tools and they do not cost that much and are very good (and accurate).
John Shepherd26/10/2011 18:44:48
222 forum posts
7 photos
As the originator of this thread, can I now draw attention to my article published in MEW176/177 that was the solution to my problem. The jig as described has now been in use for some time and continues to give consistent results.
 
Regards
John Shepherd
chris stephens26/10/2011 19:16:59
1049 forum posts
1 photos
Hi Kwil,
J&L catalogue a 3mm Guhring cobalt drill (the best quality drills I have come across) £2.95 +VAT. Dormer TiN coated HSS A002 (£0.75 +VAT which is slightly cheaper than Greenwood) just do not compare! Dormer's A777 Cobalt drills are 60p cheaper than Guhring, but I like to buy the best when I can afford it, which unfortunately isn't as often as I would like
chriStephens

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