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Which slideway oil is best?

Here is a bag full of cats type of topic. Please wade in with your views

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John Whitby25/12/2010 16:26:06
5 forum posts
Cromwells do Shell machine oils in 25 litre containers which are (relatively) inexpensive compared to buying by the litre. They do both Tellus32 and also Tonna slideway oils.
 
Most 'sticky' oils will do for slideways I've found but in cold weather......... 
Richard Parsons25/12/2010 16:45:40
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645 forum posts
33 photos
 

Chris - As I knew it 3 in 1 oil contained solvents, lubricants (some of it possible linseed oil to give you a nice polish) and a very small amount of the same tackle as you find in Silvo. It was one of those things you used on your SU carbs if they were a little sticky. When they took more than 7 seconds to ‘spin off’ and needed lapping in.  Devotees of the SU who were ‘at it’ in the days when Pontius was a pilot and Mortis was his ‘rigger’ will know what I mean.

For my slides and lathe beds I use ‘chain saw bar oil’. It is all I can get in Hungary. I add a little STP to it. 2 or 3 screw driver dips into ½ litres of the stuff. There are slide way oils, cutting oils, even fortune telling oils (it knows oil, hears oil etc) available But you cannot get them. For the local ‘Management’ it is too much like hard work to all an extra line to their oil order.  They would rather sit with their thumbs up their ‘waistcoats’ (I know it does not rhyme) and their minds in neutral.

Stovepipe25/12/2010 22:46:10
196 forum posts
Thanks, fellas, for your advice. This is specifically labelled as "lubricating oil", (not the traditional "3 in 1") but it can be relegated to the old bookcase that does duty as a canstand, and I'll get something more suitable. Again, comments much appreciated.
 
Dennis
Gray6226/12/2010 09:50:26
1058 forum posts
16 photos
The main problem with using motor engine oil as a general purpose lubricant is that it containsdetergents and additives that are designed to hold particles in suspension. As a motor vehicle ol system works under pressure and is constantly fed through a failter, these suspended particles  are removed during the filtration.
If you use this type of oil in a non pressurised system as found in most geared lathe headstocks and feed gearboxes, those suspended particles slowly turn the oil into an abrasive compound and will over time cause excessive gear wear.
The oils recommended for my lathe are Shell Tellus 68 and for the Ajax mill, Tellus 29, these oils have excellent lubrication properties and allow paricles to drop out of suspension and sit in the bottom of the oil sump.
EtheAv8r27/12/2010 17:43:14
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111 forum posts
3 photos
As a beginner with a new first lathe on order I find this discussion a bit disturbing.   I should have thought that the oil and grease to be used for the daily lubrication and maintenance of the lathe would be a simple and general standard, not something that warrents such lack of general specification and speculation.
 
I am greatly surprised that 3-in-1 oil would not be suitable and find the suggestion that it would be abbrasive to be a great surprise.  I understand the issue of additives in car oils, but did not think they would be detramental.  How about the 'straight' aviation olis used for running-in new or overhauled engines then, as these do not containe the harmfull addatives?
 
Or should I just get 5 litres of Rocol Ultraglide X5 and be done with it?  I have a few litres of 'straight' 80 and 100 oils avaliable, but will have to fork out nearly £40 for the Rocol Ultraglide X5.
 
And what grease to use for the greasing points?  The Wabeco manual clearly shows the daily oiling and greasing points, but nowhere is there any guidance on specification.
Chris Trice27/12/2010 18:36:18
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1376 forum posts
10 photos
Myford sell a number of oils specifically for different machinery applications and they openly tell you what oils they recommend in each case in the instruction manuals and on their website. Other dealers have equivalent oils and do the same. Afterall, they should know which oil is the best for the purpose. You can phone them and ask for their recommendation. Assuming any oil is OK is a bit like assuming that any oil will suit your car, and in the same way, a less than ideal oil is better than no oil at all.  However it's prudent to use the right stuff if you want it to operate at it's best for as long as possible. No need to panic but best not to work your lathe too hard until you get the right oil. The most obvious point where correct lubrication is important is the spindle since that has the most chance of siezing and doing serious damage purely because it's the part of the lathe that works the hardest.

Edited By Chris Trice on 27/12/2010 18:37:19

Sandy Morton27/12/2010 18:51:58
104 forum posts
I used 3 in 1 for about 40 years on cycles without any problems.  I also used various types of grease for bearings but the best lubricant I ever had was Superspray Lube and it worked just fine on the lathe and the mill too.
Stub Mandrel27/12/2010 19:24:14
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4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
I don't seem to have problesm with neatcut - after all, in machines with spray lubrication the slideways get drenched uin cutting oil or suds.
 
Going back to 3-in-1, if I recall correctly it is castor oil based and tends to degrade by oxidisation and become thick and gummy.
 
Neil
chris stephens27/12/2010 19:37:17
1049 forum posts
1 photos
Would not an E-mail to Wabeco asking for recommendations be a sensible idea? Or perhaps a phone call to the importers.
chriStephens 
 

V8Eng27/12/2010 20:42:59
1826 forum posts
1 photos
My ML7 gets the Myford recommended lubricants, as far as I'm concerned our machines cost good money and we spend plenty on, materials, tools etc.
So why cost cut on lubricants or mess about with different grades?
Peter G. Shaw27/12/2010 21:27:25
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1531 forum posts
44 photos
Hi,
 
I can understand the comments about motor, specifically engine, oil not being good for the lathe, but this what I have been using for the last 16 years.
 
Now, my lathe manual quotes "A68 - ISO 3498 or analogous grease with middle viscosity" for oiling points such as leadscrews/ thrust bearings etc.Searching on the internet, all I have been able to find so far is that ISO 3498 has been superceded, and no reference at all to A68.
 
So, is there anyone who perhaps knows from the above what I should be using. I have to say that the word "grease" is obviously wrong as grease to me is a thickish substance which I cannot get into the oil holes.
 
The same instructions state the use of "ISO FLEX NBU15" or "Arconel L74" for the headstock bearings and other grease points. Castrol some time ago said that their LM grease is the same as the ISO Flex NBU 15.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
Chris Trice27/12/2010 22:29:34
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1376 forum posts
10 photos
Myford Speed 10's headstock (ballrace) bearings use LM grease. It's also recommended for the backgears and feedscrews. Everything else Shell Vitrea 27 or Esso Nuto H32.
 
Super 7, Esso Nuto H32 for everything except for feedscrews, leadscrews, back gears and rack which can be (and I quote) "by any good motor oil of SAE30 specification" or Rocol MTS1000/ Castrol LM Grease.
 
I use the Nuto H32. Not sure I'd use grease on the slides or leadscrew if only because swarf would stick to it like a good'un but SAE30 not a problem.
John Reid 127/12/2010 22:32:26
4 forum posts
I have always used Mobil Vactra No 2 for the slideways on my lathes and Bridgeport.
John R
Peter G. Shaw30/12/2010 20:20:55
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1531 forum posts
44 photos
I have today found a firm - Hallett Oils - which will supply smallish quantities of various types of oil, eg their SL68 which is a slideway oil equivalent to Shell Tonna TX68 & Esso Febris K68. Expensive, mind you, at  £10.22 for 2 litre, plus P&P of  £7.22.

Why did I buy? Three reasons really: one, to beat the VAT rise (and yes I know I shouldn't allow the tax tail to wag the dog); two, the only other place I found selling it by the litre was RDG which as far as I can see would have been more expensive by £8; and three, I didn't want to buy the alternative of 5litres which I don't think I would ever use. (Actually, it is probably doubtful that I will use all of the 2 litres, but who knows?)

The point is that I have been using the dregs of motor oil, ie what's left after doing an oil change, and really, I can't even say what it is, never mind the grade. So after reading the above, I've now changed. Oh well, back to cleaning the lathe yet again!

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw
Andrew Johnston30/12/2010 21:19:20
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7061 forum posts
719 photos
I can recommend Hallett Oils too. I've been using their oils and coolant for several years. I tend to buy the 5 litre cans, as they're a bit cheaper per litre. Last time round the loop with them, discussing a slideway oil for a CNC milling machine with Turcite ways, they recommended their 'Slideway68D', which presumably is similar to their SL68. I've been very happy with it. Now that I've nearly finished my 1 litre can I shall buy a 5 litre can from them, plus some more coolant. The coolant (Biokool14) lasts well and doesn't seem to go off. At least it doesn't seem to smell, even although it may be in the sump for up to a year.
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
Terryd31/12/2010 00:44:53
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Hi Peter,
 
I just read another posting on gearbox oils and it was said that motor oil was not recommended as it contained detergents.  These apparently keep particles in suspension so that they can be removed by a filter.  Now that would be undesirable in a lathe gearbox where you need particles to fall out of suspension, but is it really that important for slideways?
 
I've used the dregs of motor oil on my slideways like you for many years and not noticed any really deleterious effects, what am I doing wrong?  I'd like to hear comments on this so please shoot me down.
 
Terry
RJKflyer31/12/2010 09:54:12
49 forum posts
3 photos
Rocol slideway gets my vote - contains a rust inhibitor too, which is good if your equipment is in e.g. an unheated garage/shed.
 
http://www.rocol.com/corp/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=404&Itemid=413 
blowlamp31/12/2010 13:18:06
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1885 forum posts
111 photos
I can see no real downside to using any typical low viscosity modern day engine oil. It's designed for use in hot and cold extremes, where condensation exists and under other very arduous working conditions.

The talk of its unsuitabiliy is a little overstated in my opinion and seems to be based on the theoretical problems of it containing detergents which will hold particles in suspension - but why is that a problem and why would it be better for the swarf to remain in contact with the ways? It could be seen as academic anyway, given the likely film thickness.

By the same token, if you've got that much swarf floating around the headstock, then surely you'd be better off cleaning it out before filling with oil. I also doubt that much dirt will stay 'on the bottom' - detergent oil or not, with all the rotating components in there. After all, my wifes juicer/blender doesn't leave much down there once it's running at full pelt.
 
Martin.
Peter G. Shaw31/12/2010 14:12:29
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1531 forum posts
44 photos
Well folks, I don't know anything at all about oils, but reading what has been written above does all make sense to me, especially as I've known since my Beetle owning days about detergent oils. Which suggested to me that I really should change.
 
I'd already found about the headstock grease from Castrol many years ago, but perhaps rather naively thought that motor oil would do elsewhere, but when I found I could buy small quantities from Hallets I decided that hang the cost, I'll do it. It does mean though that even though I've just done a major clean and relube with motor oil, I perhaps should consider doing it again but with the correct stuff this time.
 
One thing I won't be changing is my use of Rocal Slideway spray lubricant for the cross-slide and the top-slide, reason being that I've got the stuff and it certainly makes them better. I won't be doing it for the saddle/bed slideway because I keep cleaning the bed etc, and hence wiping anything off, but in anycase, there is an oil hole which allows oil to get onto the bed underneath the saddle from whence it appears to be spread around by the plastic wipers at each edge of the saddle. Therefore it's easy to reapply an oil for the bed/saddle, but there is no such device for the other slides, hence the Rocol stuff should last considerably longer.
 
I should point out that in my case I do not have any oil bath places - it all relies on a drop here, a drop there, a drop elsewhere etc - a sort of total loss system which in turn does suggest that Martin (Blowlamp) may well have a good point in my case.
 
Anyway, I've done it now, so I'll have to stick (a-hem) with it. And the old motor oil will be used for the garden shears etc,  anything else which just needs a covering of protective oil - bars of bright steel for example, and on hacksaw blades and drill bits when cutting through steel - anything not too important and for which total loss is irrelevant.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
 
 
 
 
WALLACE31/12/2010 14:16:56
304 forum posts
17 photos
Stuff from Chronos works for me - I squirts it into the odd oil nipples on my lathe as well and it seems to work ok (not for the geared head though  - that uses some synthetic gear oil I had left over from a car gearbox oil change).
 
I did try some slideway oil on my bike chain once as I thought it might last longer - but only once as all the dirt and grit from the road appeared to want to stick to it !
 
I am quite liberal with the soluble oil on my lathe - this does tend to keep things clean - any swarf etc doesn't stick to the bed. The trick is to dry out the felt bits on the saddle with kitchen towle etc after using as these are the bits that will cause rust stains on the bed. I've also removed the metal covers for them as well.
 
Best thing for a geared head machine I would have thought would be to stick a magnet in it somewhere to pick up any odd bits of metal floating around in the oil.
 
But I agree with Blowlamp - the amount of loading on a lathe is minimal compaired to say a car engine. The average car gearbox transmits 100hp for hours on end - the loading and wear on a hand operated lathe saddle must be very low in comparison - just so long as it's kep clean !!  
 
w.

Edited By WALLACE on 31/12/2010 14:24:00

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