Another open thought - beginners perceptions .

Simple - Stop posting twaddle.

If you can't see it, measure it, or make it, then don't post it.

.

1. Stay on-topic
2. Provide a decent search facility

MichaelG.

It would help if beginners would read recent posts at least before asking the same question yet again.
Also all thread titles should be vetted and changed to something sensible so beginners can easily see the subject if they do a manual review of titles. It must be particularly hard for non native English speakers to fathom some subjects.

Most forums have a section for twaddle or at least off topic subjects and that might syphon off some of the OT content. Also some forums have 'like' or equivalent voting buttons that if not misused could allow the experts to quickly add a vote of approval

Who decides who the experts are? Just go on no. of posts, or prizes won, or just people you already know, or what? This is a serious question by the way.

That's not easy. Some experts have entrenched views, or may not be up to speed on every subject etc. It is common for a recognised manual machinist not to know much about CNC for example.
Sometimes a first post even might be from a person with very specialised professional knowledge. My first post on another forum was in response to a question about a tool I possessed and other responders were demonstrating limited and erroneous undrstanding.

The "right choice" for a person depends on their own ability and equipment and the right answer matches that, sometimes, people quote things which aren't wrong, but they don't apply to the particular scenario or rule set.

The inability to edit post's is poor too, on other forums, the OP can take 2 or 3 of the first posts "for future" and compile/update his or her findings in there following completion of solving of the problem, so the first follow up thread, contains what they found to have done the trick for that scenario.

Perhaps a FAQ thread should be started, with various Chapters Milling, CNC, Turning, within this thread all postings could be rated by selected forum members......... and then beginners could more easily be pointed to a good starting point.

or does this already exist on this forum?

Industry has accepted standards and this is helped through the machinery they use being relatively standard as well

Hobbyists have a huge variation in both tooling and facilities which makes accepted procedures etc more difficult

The Yahoo sites were probably the best solution because they could address an individual hobby machine and deal with its particular foibles

One of the big problems is that beginners don't really give enough info when asking a question so the replies have to be general rather than specifically suited to their particular situation.

It's also impossible to tell if the answer is comming from someone sat in their armchair who may have googled it or someone who has actual practical knowledge on the matter, this is one reason I'll often link to a photo in my reply, not only can it make things clearer for the beginner but it shows that I have been there and done it.

I don't see the forum software being able to have things like likes, ratings etc. as being likely.

J

Agreed completely. it doesn't have to be a photo - a bit of preamble helps as well "when i made my first loco..." or "when I was setting up my lathe..." gives a bit of background to help judge the validity of the rest of the answer.

Rod

Its that word Expert again...

Ex = Something past it's best

Spurt = Drip under pressure

It never ceases to amuse me when someone boastfully introduces themselves as an Expert in this or that....

Dull

This forum is no different to many in that standard members have a set time in which to edit their post after which they cannot gain access again.

As for posting feedback on what worked for them in a lot of cases you are lucky to get a thankyou, thats if they even show their face again as many just seem to post the once and are not seen again.

J

As for posting feedback on what worked for them in a lot of cases you are lucky to get a thankyou, thats if they even show their face again as many just seem to post the once and are not seen again.

Recently, reluctantly, posted a question,and replied directly to the respondant. Being a beginner am relectant to ask questions because of what is known in the sailing world as snotty yachties. Only after researching all forums and google would I dare to post a question or suggestion.

I think that for all the beginners questions I've asked, I have done a fairly thorough search of this forum and the web before asking. But, it is a credit to the members of this forum how many times they are asked the same question that has been asked many times before and largely they still respond helpfully.

Gary

Is that an abbreviation like OCCAM ?

I was serious, all this endless twaddle about microns [ which we can't work to ] speed of light [ which we can't afford given the last quarters electric bill ] has no place here.

It's supposed to be a practical forum run by a company who produces practical magazines.

There are plenty of places on the web where you can sound off on theories, chat rooms etc.

This forum is what it is, it's supplied free, you don't even need to be a reader or subscriber which quite a few aren't to enjoy it.

Perhaps if MTM published a new mag called Armchair Machinist a lot more would fit in here ?

Well I've been doing (what I think of as) Hobbyist Engineering for about 20 years now and I still don't consider myself an "Expert" . There are clearly people here who are though, probably because they do/did some form of engineering for a living, whereas I never did.

What I do have is quite a bit of 'experience' and a fair range of machine tools collected (accumulated?) over a long time. Nearly all of it is pretty old, well past it's prime and none of it cost too much. So if I see a question that is in an area where I have some of that experience, then I will generally chip in. Normally this is in relation to the machinery I have or the type/size of models that I make. But I also think herein lies the problem.

Everyone has different expectations (quality, budget, time) and levels of experience within their own spheres of interest. If you build 7.25" locomotives (or restore cars, repair clocks etc.) then your expectations and experiences will be very different from mine ( I build in Gauge 3). As I've mentioned, my machine tools are pretty old and need, shall we say, a high level of sympathy but I've learned to live within their limits. In this respect, I can probably claim more 'experience' than those with newer/better machinery when the question specifically involves some kind of older machinery & their related problems.

My tooling of course also effects how I approach my modelling and I prefer many "obsolete" work methods (to some newer ones) either because they suit my machine capabilities or sometimes simply because they are more affordable (e.g. cheap!). I accept that they might not always be the absolute best/most modern way but the key thing here is that they meet my particular needs and equipment.

I will admit that I do occasionally get a bit peeved when people are dismissive of these methods and/or older machines, probably because their actual experience lies elsewhere in different or newer types of machinery, larger or much smaller sizes of work or perhaps industrial practice. It may well be that they are perfectly correct, that their way is the best/fastest/most efficient and I'm certainly interested in hearing about these alternatives. But there may be good reasons that I can't (or won't) use them and it might well be that others here share my needs in this respect..

So whilst there are clearly some here who really are "experts" within their own fields, they may not have as much 'experience' in some things as others (who are undoubtedly less expert). I feel this is often where any conflict/confusion in the advice being offered arises.

There's no particular solution to this issue, although once in the (distant) past when I saw something that I thought was particularly misleading, I will admit I contacted the OP directly and told him so (and explained why). Generally though, most of the advice given here is very well intentioned and (I'm sure) also generally helpful to the OP.

Regards,

IanT

There is plenty of published material about the use of lathes,milling machines and so on.Numerous books have been written over the years by,not necessarily 'experts' but those who have maybe worked in industry or have been model making for a long time.

Many years ago I served an engineering apprenticeship,so I should know how to use a lathe,miller,be able to silver solder etc by now!.I had to learn,and so do beginners.They just need to be patient and learn as much as they can.And,after all,we are all still learning!

Similar to IanT, when I post a reply, it is almost always due to either personal knowledge and experience, ie how many Warco 220/Mashstroy C218T lathes are there out there, or as a recommendation of where to find relevant information, ie books etc.

Again like IanT, I have been doing this for 20+ years, and it is still all experimentation so when I say, for example, that I use a modified parting off tool to Len Mason's design it is because I have built it and it works for me.

I'm no expert, far from it but I have learned that there is no such thing as a silly dumb question if you do not know the answer or do not know how to find the answer (and that is probably the most important point - knowing where to find the answer).

I certainly remember my early days, and having to ask, would you believe, a ME colleague at work what a milling machine was! I am now the not-so-proud owner of a pile of Chinese junk masquerading as a milling machine.

And yes, I completely agree with Laurence B, we are all still learning, it is just that some are further up the curve than others (me in particular). Mind you, these days I keep being surprised at just how much I have learned over the last 20+ years.

So let's all be tolerant of people asking the silly dumb questions, I was once (still am) one of them.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

Well I am defiantly a beginner and If I ask what some people think is a simple question and they don't like it then its simple don't answer it, Since joining this forum I have come to realise there are reply's from certain people I look forward to reading because they write them with me in mind (being a beginner) and they make sense straight away and I'm very grateful, there are others that just complicate the issue by telling me I should do something different to what I asked in the first place, (not good) then there are them that moan the question has been asked before, easy don't reply then, with out the stupid question people like me ask you wouldn't have a lot to write about or moan about, keep up the good wok chaps you know who you are.

Alan.