Member postings for Russ B

Oooooh, I didn't know we had a motorbike page! here's my 2pence worth, although its "only" just over 30 years old, it's nearly as old as me, so to me, its a classic! I'm perhaps a bit younger than your average demographic on here (sorry guys!)

It's a Honda NSR 250 (MC21) they only sold them in Japan, but when they had a surplus, some of them went to the Aussies.

I acquired it about 3 years ago if I recall correct. It was a race bike in pretty poor condition but it sounded great. Under the microscope however, the crank bearings had more float than anything I've ever seen, the wiring loom had several bare wires, vital bits were missing out of the carbs, needles were worn and loose and it was completely missing the oil pump system and there was a patch on one of the aluminium cylinders (the front/lower) that was missing the nicasil plating - I'm sure I found many other things that weren't right but they all just got picked up along the way.

It's built from new parts, pretty much all genuine honda apart from the odd bearing/seal which were NLA. New crank, rods, pistons, rings, cylinder plating, all bearings, seals etc etc. I rebuilt the carbs, sourced and reinstated the oil pump system so it was no longer on premix, rectified some issues with the electronics, had all the nuts/bolts/washers from the engine and chassis replated (3 batches, yellow/gold, bright zinc and black) rebuilt the front forks, powdercoated the wheels, restored the frame and swingarm etc etc etc. All cases stripped and vapour blasted, some holes repaired from a snapped chain etc.

I've been riding it for the past 18 months (with fairings and lights of course!) as my daily (summer) bike for commuting and pleasure and it's been great..... but I'm making a few changes, getting rid of the modern aftermarket subframe and seat unit and going back to the standard subframe and undertray/rearlight with an aftermarket GRP race seat unit - nothing wrong with the modern alloy subrame and skinny seat, I thought it might be a bit uncomfortable on my wrists but it's actually fine - I just prefer the original style GP seat units of that era.

Edited By Russ B on 15/05/2023 14:21:21

I've been working on building a digitizer to scan parts, unfortunately, the touch probe I have isn't suitable (I'm measuring very delicate and expensive parts and my probe require a little bit too much force, I'm afraid to use it!)

I've ordered a new one from the far east that operates on the 6 balls+3 shafts principal. It'll not be here before I go away next week, and I want to take my digitised parts with me to work on!

So.... the evening before yesterday I decided to design and 3D print a simple Z axis touch probe using materials available in my scrap bin, mainly, a single microswitch..... and nothing else really useful.

We're on version 3 now, I'll set it off printing first thing in the morning. The first version printed yesterday was more traditional, featured a plunger that rode up and switched the switch, spring return and while it worked, I wasn't happy with the internal friction, even after cleaning up the bore with a drill. A total rethink was called for, why did I think inside the box to start with!?

V2 started printing this morning while I was at work... but my printer died half way thought, so I took the opportunity to tweak the design a bit.

V3 will commence tomorrow morning as shown below. The outer diameter is the same as the spindle in my Sainsmart 3018 cnc router, so motor out, this assembly in. The inner cross carries the brass needle which acts as a weight (more weight may be needed but it doesn't take much to switch). This inner cross pivots in a bore through the outer with a slight clearance, once in the spindle bracket, it can't slide out either side. As the machine moves down, it trips the switch, breaks the NC probe circuit and the the software records the XYZ at that location.

Obviously it just measures Z, the probe I've ordered will sense in any direction and is much more precise. It can be used for edge finding, not just scanning a height map.

Edited By Russ B on 05/04/2023 21:07:17

I thought I'd start a separate thread specific to modifications to my SainSmart 3018 Prover V2. I welcome comments, but I wish I could reserve multiple first messages and edit them retrospectively so I can keep a post per upgrade and edit as I do it/learn from the experience to keep it all in one place. never mind!

Anyway, my machine is a prebuilt 3018 style CNC router. You just have to bolt the gantry and connect up a few wires - all the hard work is done for you.

Upgrades Proposed:

1. A 3d touch probe
2. The X axis gantry bearings
3. The spindle motor
4. The Z axis (the whole assembly)
5. A laser cutter/engraver with air assist
6. Possibly moving the Y bearings and rails

1) A 3d touch probe so I can physically scan objects and/or engrave/laser/mill curved surfaces and zero stock/centre find etc. Using the machine as a scanner was the primary reason for buying it.

2) The X axis gantry runs on two round bars, and it flexes a lot, it might be ok for engraving and light or steady cnc routing but the rest of machine frame is really quite solid, it can be significantly improved with a minor tweak and about £60. This invloves fitting a pair of MGN type rails directly to the existing 2020 vee channel seen behind the existing round bars - the round bars and bearings go in the parts bin. A new saddle will be designed and 3D printed, and if/when more serious work takes place, something more metallic might emerge from scraps.

3) Stock motor details are few and far between but I think its rated about about 10k, 1.5A 12v.... I'm not sure how these numbers add up but it runs at 24v 10krpm apparently, independent tests online confirm it hits about 9krmp @ 1.6A 24v no load. There are multiple "upgrades" on the manufacturers website and I happen to have a European made 20k motor that exactly matches the specification of the Chinese 20k spindle upgrade they advertise but mine has a far superior brush assembly, shorter body but higher weight, its a direct fitment.

I've tested it already and it's got significantly more welly at the same output but appears to be turning at roughly the same speed, someone has borrowed my RPM meter and I'm not sure how these PWM speed controllers really work, so its up in the air a bit. The spindle was set to the same rpm and I just assumed fitting a motor with twice the rpm would result in, double the RPM.... as I said, I'm not sure if that's how DC PWM speed control works.

4) The Z axis ....is plastic but seems solid enough, however it only has very limited travel and I can see that being more of an inconvenience than anything, the first thing I wanted to test engrave (a piece of 11mm board) couldn't be reached, I had to stack a couple and redo the clamps. The saddle that carries the Z assembly and rides on the X rails, will be no use when I change the X bearings and their layout. I will 3D print a new one and mount the spindle as close to the new X rails as physically possible, I noticed quite a distance between spindle centre and X axis centre which increases leverage and promotes twisting in the X bearings, any reduction here will further improve rigidity. I will also widen the bearing spacing, reducing my X travel, but increasing rigidity especially if/when milling!.

5)Laser.... I've always wanted one...... the PCB has 2 headers for a laser and air assist and the manufacturer does their own 5.5w concentrated spot laser with a fixed focal length (I guess that's 5.5w input power not output but I don't know, the header supports upto 2 amp)

6) Possibly moving the Y bearings and maybe even rails back to the positioning on previous version of this machine, it has less travel, but should be more stable for light milling work, I was unhappy with the saddle as it was narrower, and then I noticed the bearings and rails under the bed were quite narrow too, and then I spotted the specification change, increasing travel on all axes, I double checked a few frame dimensions and it's the same, so they must've narrowed the bearings. The controller on the V2 is a significant upgrade, featuring headers for the lasers, better drivers IIRC, a better 32bit arm GRBL controller vs the previous (presumably arduino) 8bit GRBL controller and limit switches preinstalled on all axes + 2 spare..... now 1 spare.... whoops, I don't know my own strength...

No time scale for the above. I bought the machine purely to digitise some parts that are practically impossible to measure and/or have bizare contours and stuff, I need accurate 3D models to realise another dream, to run CFD on heat transfer and fluid flow though various parts. I will probably use the machine to make balsa dummies for test fitting, if it can one day actually machine soft aluminium, I will give it a shot but I suspect I'll be paying someone else to machine the finished parts properly, as the softness of the alloy makes it quite tricky to machine without damaging.

Edited By Russ B on 02/04/2023 21:28:51

Edited By Russ B on 02/04/2023 21:35:31

I spoke earlier about widening the Y axis bearing bars, effectively increasing stability, while reducing the travel a little........

Well, it turns out, this gauge might actually be a new feature on the V2 version of the machine. They improved the design of the Z axis which apparently had excessive flexing (which is exactly what I'm concerned about now, it must've been really bad before!) and it seems they've increased the work area from 260x155 to 290x180. It's hard to tell from the photos, but it looks like the bearing slides are mounted closer together and the bearing blocks are closer together under the table, effectively increasing the travel.

They could've actually just made the frame a little wider which might make the bearings appear closer together but I'm not sure. In any case, I think I'll widen the bearing mount positions and reduce the effective travel should I ever wish to try cutting something requiring more power.

John, Andy,

Thanks they look very nice, and are very well priced, if I cant find or cant get mine to work, I'll buy one on ebay.

£60 seems to be about the going rate on ebay, if it were £40 I would probably just buy one for the convent size and shank, it will save a lot of messing about. £60 however will cover the linear slide upgrade I'm wanting to implement on the X axis.

The machine stands me at about £200, If I can get it scanning and progress my project, I'll pay retail for the linear slides and see if I can do something very budget about that miniscule motor, I've seen very cheap Chinese palm routers on ebay for £15 ish, but they're probably a bit too big and heavy this small frame (The pictures don't really show how small it is - it's just a bit bigger than an A4 printer.

Please note, I said Y axis, I meant X axis in the last post.... although the Y could maybe be arranged better with the existing parts.

Andy,

Do you have any ebay item numbers or links to the touch probes you mention? The only concern with mine (apart from finding it!) is the size of it, it's designed for a "real" machine and is dimensionally similar to something like a renishaw etc - I may actually have to remove the spindle motor and mount it in a bush in place of it.

Lovely looking machine, your use of the MGN slides on the gantry for a X axis are exactly what I was looking to achieve, making use of my existing pair of 2020 V slot frame spars. The Z axis carrier/saddle is plastic, and I plan to use the round bars and bearings leftover from the X axis to make a wider saddle that incorporates a slightly longer Z axis if I have the parts (I do have a short 16mm ball screw & nut somewhere) - this will reduce my X axis travel by 25mm each way but I think it'll be worth it, and it'll still be more than big enough for my needs.

I think once I've upgraded this that's the limit of the machine, as everything will be a similar strength then in terms of deflection, although I think it may be possible to space the Y axis slides further apart to better react to the moment caused in the bed/spoil board by a milling cutter.

You can see in the photo linked below, the two round steel slides under the bed are mounted quite central close to the screw, I could move them outward right and left, and move the bearing blocks closer to the front/back - as before moving the bearing blocks closer to the front/back will reduce the travel, and again, I think this will be worth it for rigidity so it can do actual routing/milling work - I think the chinese designs tend to go for capacity over quality.

Exactly for the reasons you said, I'm trying not to spend money on it, it'll only ever be as good as its weakest link, so once that's eliminated (the x axis gantry - I can lift the cutter/motor a mm with my hand, it flexes!!) then I think that's about done!

image of the same machine as mine

I thought I'd give a little update. I'm going down the GRBL route, it seems to offer everything I need and is free. I will be making a donation to GrblGru if the software does what I need. I watched one of their videos where they used the G38.2 command to scan the surface, setting out an boundary and step over, the software was then able to create an STL file directly from the data if desired, and could even create more points by interpolating the data. This gives me a 3D model of parts I want to scan. I can also use it in the future to engrave or laser 3d surfaces (if I buy the laser attachment)

I've built my CNC machine (it was almost fully assembled right out the box). I've plugged it in and tested it with the included "Candle" GRBL software as well as the built in offline controller. It all seems to do what it said on the tin. It's quite a sturdy machine all round, bar the Y axis which being the weakest link really drags the whole machine down! Given that the included motor is probably only about 75w I really don't think this matters. It is known for being one of the best "3018" CNC routers around, but I can reliably inform you, that it is at best, an engraver, not a router.

None of this matters for me, as it's basically just for metrology but I have put a wanted ad out for a pair of linear slides, ideally a pair of the MGN type, 12mm, with the H type bearings. I'm wondering if I could make use of the MGN9 however, but I don't want to skimp. Once modded the machine will lose some of its Y axis travel as I plan to make the carridge wider to better handle the side load when milling. I just need to be sensible about what I want to use it for, and ultimately, what it's worth. If I want a £1000 router machine capable of machining aluminium plate, it could be cheaper to just buy one!

So, I need to start digging around in storage to find my proper touch probe or 3D print something new with a simple vertical plunger & micro switch

Edited By Russ B on 28/03/2023 12:02:42

Yes I noticed the pi4's aren't due back in stock for 6 months, they're powerful for the rrp, but at the prices they're selling for, there are better alternatives if (unlike me) you know a little bit about how to use them and dont depend on the community or generic support

Well.... pending delivery.... I now own a SainSmart Genmitsu 3018 PROVer V2.

There were loads of different version and "non" brands of this machine, but this one seems a bit more refined, has a better controller with more IO, has limit switches for homing which non of the unbranded ones seemed to have and it it looks to have quite a comprehensive website, guides and a large community who seem to do lots of modding too!

It comes with an offline controller box too, so if I do want to slip the router back in and make something, I can stick a suitable gcode on the included microsd and setup my work coordinates etc without a PC.

They also do a laser add on....... and I've always want to have a go at that!!

So, I guess I now need to look for a suitable piece of software that incorporates a scanning feature, apparently its common but I've yet to see it and my google skills keep showing me the tool height setters in use, I think we can safely say they're straight forward enough!

John, thanks.

This is ringing a bell somewhere in the back of my mind, I recall the G540 wanted step pulse and direction info directly, i guess it simply passes estops and limits straight over the parallel port which is picked up by Mach3 on my old setup. I'm sure the Mach3 software was directly generating the step and direction info for the G540, maybe it was a plugin or something.

Inside the G540 its just 4x G250 separate stepper drivers maybe it's time to extract those and put them to use outside the G540.

I think step one.... might be, try and cheat, by a chinese CNC router thats supposedly turn key and see what happens.

backup plan, if i'm grasping this correctly, use my pi2 as a gcode sender (it has a 7" colour touch screen and enough IO to handle estops and limits I guess) and either send gcode to an Arduino motion controller, or perhaps, see if I can make use of a GPIO expansion on the pi2 and have the sender and the motion controller in one package and send step and direction directly to the G540 or G250 drive directly~?! (this sounds like its beyond my abilities, but someone may have done it already online and been kind enough to create a guide!) - All I'd need then, is a PC powerful enough to handle the CAD/CAM and create the Gcode (which my M710q certainly is)?

Chances are, I've miss-understood and I'm certain I've over estimated my abilities, I call it learning.

Dave, I think you've clarified something lurking in the back of my mind that I didn't have the experience to convey in words - and it's what prompted this thread, thanks.

My thoughts for Pi was not to run any CAD/CAM software, but rather just as a more powerful alternative to an arduino such as the Atmega328 on the Uno, I recall building a delta 3d printer and using a much more powerful processor than was normally used as it had to translate all the cartesean gcode to delta - and even then, if you threw to much at it, the gantry platform would literally microstutter as it failed to keep up - typically if there was too much precision on a curve (which iirc on 3d printer gcode, isn't a curve, its just lots of little straight lines, why its done like this I dont know....surely a curve would be better, the codes there right!?)

anyhow, I fantasise about using the pi and linux, but I'm not good with it, I'd love to be able to do "stuff" but I can't, I just follow guides, successfully do stuff that's over my head and miss the basic understanding behind what I'm doing, it's a barrier for me and prevents any genuine creativity in this area, I've got too much going on to do everything I want to do, but I will need to crack this at some point as I want to teach my kids the basics, I'll probably buy some sort of robot kit or something when they're old enough and hopefully we'll do a bit of something, structured text maybe, and achieve something from the screen to the real world! I remember doing 555 traffic lights at school, and loved it, I guess its all arduino and linux now, aside from BBC's and Acorns at primary school (which were well past EOL and no doubt just charity give aways), proper IT was just coming into schools as I was leaving - seems to have been a big void in that area though out the 90's

Dave, whats your thoughts on the GRBL/UNO combo, I have a fairly modern Lenovo M710q with an i7-7700 in the garage, it runs my 3d printer, so I have a PC, it's just very small and I don't think it'll run the G540 which as powerful as it is, is old tech.... its made for running a big lathe/mill really, each one of the steppers on that weighs as much as my whole 3d printer!

Edited By Russ B on 16/03/2023 12:05:23

Thanks all for the input, it's really appreciated. Google was overwhelming, there were so many different options, I didn't realise so many would support the use of a touch probe to map out a surface.

John H, Mach 4 is interesting, I found some emails last night from 10 or so years ago between myself and Gecko talking about its imminent release, so I was obviously on the pulse back then at least - I thought it was the first time I'd heard of it when you mentioned it - clearly, I don't have the best memory, I do have a lot of projects over the years, my head clearly has limited storage space, and it's currently recovering and defragging my CNC knowledge!!

After looking into the GRBL I think I might actually start leaning this way, one of the most attractive things about it, is that I can buy a chinese CNC router for under £200 that includes everything I need, and in combination with my 3D printer I can very quickly swap out the questionable looking spindle motor, for a touch probe, and I don't have to cannibalise a 3D printer or modify my mill. Furthermore, I'm wanting to machine very soft, extruded aluminium cooler profile and I think the spindle speeds of a CNC router might actually be what I need, so I'll be keeping hold of that motor (and maybe even upgrade it to something more powerful and IP rated to keep swarf out)

PeteL, Centroid Acorn looks to be a Beaglebone based setup and very expensive from my current perspective! Depending on how I get on with GRBL, might adjust that perspective! Right now, its a solid pass but thank you for the tip, it's impressive hardware and software.

John, I'll check that out before I commit to a GRBL cnc router that seems too cheap to be true......

Hi,

I'm just looking for a bit of guidance or shared experiences, to steer my llittle project in the right direction before I get too invested in something old hat. The short version of the story, is I have a cnc touch probe, and a Gecko G540 setup, and I don't know which avenue to research to get it working.

I dabbled with a home made CNC mill about 12-14 years ago, I converted a sieg X1, made some cool bits, and haven't used it since! (machine sold, CNC kit in my shed).

I've now forgot everything I knew about mach 3, my Gecko G540 and the then vintage, now ancient, single core Pentium computer that ran it all!

If the hard drive hasn't seized up, it might just fire up.

I also own a Raspberry Pi 2 which is probably much faster than the old pentium but I admit, my Linux skills are "sudo nano beginner/follow online guide!" - I do like it though, I really wish I was better at this, I'm just so unfamiliar.

Does anyone else use a touch probe or CNC software that could offer any help or guidance, perhaps theres a better way to use my hardware, maybe my Raspberry pi could finally be useful to me!?

In the time it took me to write that between jobs at work, I think you've solved it!

Firstly, apologies for not reading the thread, will be back later to read all. Scan reading, I don't think you have a solution, but I can see a few assembly errors, and youve missed a part that inside (it does need to come out, it will help you piece it together!)

I have the same set, instructions are printed on the lid (or perhaps on a card in the lid) - I will have a look when I'm home and or photograph them if needed.

Observations...... your photo showing a view inside the chuck - there is a hardened steel outer ring in there, fish it out and it'll all start making sense, as will the following paragraph. Also note, that bit at the bottom with the point, has machined flats on it's OD, these engage with the notch in the threaded part..... which you've put in upside down in your photo, notch faces in, rotate till it engages.

The shot of everything standing on the vice jaws, you collet is upside down, face the flared edge away from the notched/threaded part - the taper on the end engages with the taper in the hardened steel outer ring that you've left inside the body as per previous para..

The collet sits against the nut, as the endmill rotates, it does so against the hardened pin in the base, the notched/threaded part keying with the flats cannot rotate and the thread pushes it downward, which in turn pushes the hardened steel ring downward, this forces the outer tapered part to engage with the taper on the end of the collect, nipping the endmill.

I hope this makes sense, it's a bit rushed.

Edited By Russ B on 16/09/2022 10:12:02

If anyone is interested, not the best quality scan but some sales information.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4s35k4v8iho6lfl/Full%20page%20photo.pdf?dl=0

I should probably reword that, "upgrade" - the original separate roller and thrust bearings no doubt provide much better support for heavy side loads, but I expect the taper rollers by design to provide less radial play and therefore better support for smaller higher speed cutters - which I more up my street, hence, "upgrade"

This was I think.... a drop in replacement, do your own homework though!

Timken 19138X/19283

but still, a seal and carrier would be needed - no trouble for anyone on here I'm sure! I would just 3D print on, from design to part in just an hour or 2, and if it broke, I'd think about machining one... and then remember I can much more easily just press print and another will appear.....

I think I looked in to the spindle bearings many years ago - I seem to recall having no luck with the thrust ball bearing at the bottom - I began thinking about an upgrade to a taper roller on the nose but after removing the pulley and bearings, cleaning and adjusting it's all been solid and sound ever since.

I was thinking along the lines of a "Gamet100035/100072C Super Precision Flanged Tapered Roller" The flange provides about 2mm clearance behind the bearing, and reduces the nose to table by 9mm or so. I'd have fit a standard rotary shaft seal in a carrier secured to the quill to seal it. I can't remember if I did a drawing - I have two young kids now and focus my spare time on tinkering with other things and if I get some me time, I'm zapping about on my 2 stroke faster than I should be, or tinkering with it.......

I'm sure a normal taper roller would suffice for a 10th of the cost (or less!)

Also, note the makers name on the front, it's not Myford.

Here's a slightly less wonky version!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1xl3o958x2qupqo/_Kao%20Fong%206x24%20Manual%20KF-VM-C.pdf?dl=0