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Vernier vs Micrometer

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Wolfie26/01/2012 20:11:53
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502 forum posts
In the age of digital verniers, is there still any use for a micrometer. I have a digital vernier which I use for everything but a vague memory led me to a drawer where there was an old micrometer.
 
I think what I mean is what does a micrometer do that a vernier doesn't and is it worth me hauling it out the drawer.
Brian Dickinson26/01/2012 20:24:24
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Your micrometer will be far more accurate than the vernier. I use the vernier to get close to finish size and then use the mic. Usually cutting less and less up to size. Tool has to eb sharp though.
 
Hope this helps
 
Bri
Roderick Jenkins26/01/2012 20:26:24
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Wolfie,
 
I've got a couple of digital calipers and my experience is that although they are very useful I am not confident in being able to measure a shaft diameter to better than 2 thou (0.05mm). A micrometer has a much better feel to get an accurate measurement. If I'm turning a shaft to fit a bearing then I need the micrometer. I now have a digital one from the guys on the right and I'm very happy with it.
 
Keep the questions coming, you've generated some very interesting threads.
 
cheers,
 
Rod
Tony Pratt 126/01/2012 20:29:59
2319 forum posts
13 photos
You are joking aren't you? For anything that needs to be remotely accurate i.e. plus/minus .002" or less a digital/vernier caliper just isn't up to the job. It looks the part but you can't get the 'feel' needed for accurate measurement, it also has inherent springiness in it's design which I don't like. Don't get me wrong, a caliper is a useful piece of kit and I use mine most days but you can't beat a micrometer when chasing 'thous'
Tony
Stub Mandrel26/01/2012 21:05:05
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4318 forum posts
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You can go to thous easily enough with a vernier if you keep the gib strip reasonably tight and hold the jaws closed on the shaft rather than pushing the body along with the wheel. most errors come from swarf getting trapped between the jaws - especially when setting zero.
 
But if you want a shaft at .250" and the vernier says its 0.251" how much do you move the cross slide?
 
Digital micrometer is better - as they read to tenths, although a brief bit of practice will show you you need a fine touch to get the same reading +/- 2 tenths each time.
 
Eye:rule:vernier:micrometer use them in that order depending on teh standard of fit/size you need.
 
Neil
Tony Pratt 126/01/2012 21:22:02
2319 forum posts
13 photos
Neil, following your logic, if the caliper says .251" and you want a .250" shaft you move the cross slide .0005"?
Tony
Paul Barrett26/01/2012 21:51:45
59 forum posts
16 photos
Tony.
Depends if you have a direct or indirect reading dial on your cross slide!
Andrew Johnston26/01/2012 21:54:02
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Hmmm, sounds like a bit of a bubble to me! *
 
I have two verniers, one 5" and one 24", neither digital. I hardly ever use the smaller vernier, and the larger one only occasionally when I need to measure bigger than my micrometers go. For 99% of the time I use micrometers, all of which are analogue. Micrometers give better accuracy and I find they are easier to use and to read.
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
 
* Bubble = bubble bath = laugh
Wolfie26/01/2012 22:06:50
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502 forum posts
OK so you have convinced me its worth getting out the drawer and de rusting it. Its probably been at the back end of the cow barn since 1875.
 
Well OK its not rusted to death but its a bit stiff.
 
So whos gonna tell me how to use it?

Edited By Wolfie on 26/01/2012 22:07:25

jason udall26/01/2012 22:51:16
2032 forum posts
41 photos
Ok.
I use digital mic day in day out for diameters(+/-0.001). I use CALIPIERS for depths shoulders and lengths (+/- 0.01)
The one thing I practically never use is a vernier.
Have had to , could probably dredge up how to , but confident?
No..
funny thing is;
mic has vernier but calipier doesn't.

John Stevenson26/01/2012 23:03:49
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5068 forum posts
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Posted by Paul Barrett on 26/01/2012 21:51:45:
Tony.
Depends if you have a direct or indirect reading dial on your cross slide!
 
 
No, the question was how much do you move the cross slide.
Tony was right, it's half a thou regardless of the direct or indirect reading dial.
 
Yes I know semantics,

John S.
Nobby27/01/2012 00:21:03
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587 forum posts
113 photos
Hi Chaps

I have always made a rule I never use a vernier if I can measure the job with a micrometer .

Regards Nobby
Nicholas Farr27/01/2012 02:08:02
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Hi, when using clalipers you need to make sure they are at right angles to the job, because if they are even slightly off you will get a false reading. Most micrometers are broader across the measuring faces, and will sit squarely to the job automatically during measuring.
 
Not wanting to put anyone down, but isn't the term "digital vernier" incorrect? A vernier being an graduated scale which is read against a different graduated scale, so that sub devisions can be easyly read. Claipers sould be refered to as; claipers, vernier calipers or digital clipers. Micrometers should be refered to as; micrometers, vernier micrometers or digital micrometers, I know they can be prefixed with metric/imperial/fractional, and/or a specific type, or am I wrong, or being pedantic.
 
Regards Nick.
Terryd27/01/2012 03:13:22
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Posted by Nicholas Farr on 27/01/2012 02:08:02:
Hi, when using clalipers you need to make sure they are at right angles to the job, because if they are even slightly off you will get a false reading. Most micrometers are broader across the measuring faces, and will sit squarely to the job automatically during measuring.
 
Not wanting to put anyone down, but isn't the term "digital vernier" incorrect? A vernier being an graduated scale which is read against a different graduated scale, so that sub devisions can be easyly read. Claipers sould be refered to as; claipers, vernier calipers or digital clipers. Micrometers should be refered to as; micrometers, vernier micrometers or digital micrometers, I know they can be prefixed with metric/imperial/fractional, and/or a specific type, or am I wrong, or being pedantic.
 
Regards Nick.
 
Hi Nick,
 
Quite right,
 
The Vernier caliper is named after the differential scale used for fine measurement developed by the French Engineer of that name. The Digital Caliper has no Vernier scale (I use a capital letter for the term Vernier as it is derived from a name) so really should not be called a 'Vernier'.
 
What has gone out of fashion is the use of outside and inside calipers. Used properly these can give a surprisingly accurate method of arriving at a very close approximate diameter before using the 'mike' to finish. You need to develop a 'feel' for it though.
 
Best regards
 
Terry
BERTO27/01/2012 03:25:28
46 forum posts
Hi Wolfie .
If you are not machining to a precision tolerance - say .001 or less then the digital calipers will serve you well and yes they do more than an outside micrometer can as they can measure the inside diameter , convert metric to imperial and visa versa they also measure depth or height .
The micrometer you have may be usable but some checks are in order !
Look at the anvil surfaces and and check to see if the edges are nice and sharp - if they are rounded they may be worn .
If it is a 0-25mm or 0-1 inch mic clean the anvils with some lint free cloth or similar then gently screw the thimble down until the two anvils just touch a hold it up to a light source to see if the anvils are parrallel(some people think they are small G clamps ) , also look to see if both line up along the axis .
If all is well it is probably ok and may just need some oil (starret )
You will need to check to see if it is set to zero at 20 degrees celcuis -using the ratchet if you have not yet aquired a "feel' for a micrometer and if you don't i recommend workshop practice series number 6 as it will explain all you need to know to get started using various tools for measuring and marking out and it is written by the venerable Ivan Law .
Actally i could recommend pretty much all of the WPS series as i have read 90+% of the series - they have served me well and i have learned much from them , the only regret i have is they were not around 30yrs ago when i was in high school as i would be better for it now !
But seriously 90% of the time i find i'm using my digital calipers and only pull out my micrometer set if i feel it warrants it and yes they are chinese !
Yes i know it's not a mityutoyo, m&r or starret but they do the job and they don't cost the earth .
 
Nicholas you are correct !
calipers - digital ,vernier or jenny.
micrometer- digital or vernier .
Calling digital calipers "digital verniers is like calling a calculator a digital slide rule !
the end result may be the same but different method of achieving it and don't anyone think that vernier caliper or height gauge is not accurate as in the right hands they are every bit as accurate as a digital set & sometimes even better if they have the "tenths" scale on them .
 
Ian
 

Springbok27/01/2012 04:43:48
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879 forum posts
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There is a place in the home workshop for both. If it is general work I use the vernier if it has to be say a press fit out comes the micrometer.
 
Terryd27/01/2012 05:33:34
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
Posted by Wolfie on 26/01/2012 22:06:50:
OK so you have convinced me its worth getting out the drawer and de rusting it. Its probably been at the back end of the cow barn since 1875.
 
Well OK its not rusted to death but its a bit stiff.
 
So whos gonna tell me how to use it?

Edited By Wolfie on 26/01/2012 22:07:25

Hi Wolfie,
 
Perhaps this may help. How to read imperial and metric micrometers. Click on pictures to enlarge.
 
Imperial
 

0.2 + 0.075 + 0.001 = 0.276"
 
Metric
 

5 + 0.5 + 0.28 = 5.78 mm
 
Best regards
 
Terry

Edited By Terryd on 27/01/2012 05:34:32

John McNamara27/01/2012 06:06:26
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1377 forum posts
133 photos
Hi All
 
Calipers break the law!
 
 
Abbs Principle
 
Ernst Abbe (A co founder of Zeiss) said it all.
Page 13 here
 
 
Cheers
John

Edited By John McNamara on 27/01/2012 06:06:54

Terryd27/01/2012 07:59:22
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
H Wolfie,
 
The 'mike' is a more accurate device than a caliper but, and it is quite a big 'but', there are some important advantages that the caliper has:
 
It is versatile, it can measure internal as well as internal distances and it can measure depths. You would need a set of internal 'mikes' and a depth 'mike' for that. However the minimum internal 'mike' is limited to about 25mm whereas a caliper can be used for relatively small bore etc. (of course real accurate measurements here a set of 'go - no go' plug gauges are needed but most home playshops can't justify such expense);
 
It can measure over a wider range. Micrometers are usually limited to a 25mm range i.e. 0 to 25, 25 to 50, 50 to 75 and so on. A full set can be expensive.
 
Regards
 
Terry
David Haynes27/01/2012 08:39:49
168 forum posts
26 photos
The Moore and Wright 0" - 1" micrometer that I use belonged to my grandfather. I find the mike to be easy to use and accurate, even though it probably dates from pre war. I tend to use the mike for diameters but I also have a 6" Mitutoyo dial caliper which is used the rest of the time. None are battery operated as I find that less fuss.  My grandad served his apprenticeship on the Furness Railway/LMS but later became an engineering inspector in the high precision, temperature and humidity controlled 'Blue Room' at the Vickers Shipbuilding and Engineering works. He had a love of both traction engines and locomotives and it is a shame he isn't around to see this and many of his other tools being used for the current good purpose.
Dave

Edited By David Haynes on 27/01/2012 08:41:47

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