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Tool Centre Height

How good is this? A gimmick or useful? - lathe tool height setting

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Steve Withnell04/08/2011 20:20:03
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858 forum posts
215 photos
If this is any good, it would have been very useful for my last job, but I've been done before
 
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Center-height-gage-metal-lathe-toolbit-tailstock-setu-/360161721676?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53db4fbd4c#ht_881wt_905
 
Steve
 
AndyB04/08/2011 20:25:51
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167 forum posts
7 photos
Hi Steve,
 
For the money a 6" rule and a square do just as well
 
Andy
Tony Pratt 104/08/2011 21:44:14
2319 forum posts
13 photos
Damm, I've been waiting 40 years for just such a gadget, seriously though I wouldn't waste your money.
Tony
Chris Trice04/08/2011 22:05:36
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1376 forum posts
10 photos
You can easily see if your headstock and tailstock centres are out without a gauge (and that assumes the centre tips aren't damaged) and I question how accurately you can set your tool height in the manner shown. I use a much simpler type consisting of a base that sits on the bed or the saddle with an upright post and a flat bottomed arm that's adjustable for height up and down the post. When the top of the tool just touches the underside of the arm, you're there. Simples. If you want to get creative you can shape the arm so you can set up a normal tool and an inverted parting off tool in a rear tool post.
David Clark 104/08/2011 22:23:12
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3357 forum posts
112 photos
10 articles
Hi There
The old saying 'They can't all be wrong' appears to be incorrect.
I think personaly, they are all wrong, all 83 of them that bought it.
I would not buy one.
I doubt I would use it if someone gave it to me but I would not use the 6inch rule method either.
 
regards David
 
Chris Trice04/08/2011 22:56:29
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1376 forum posts
10 photos
I'm a great believer in KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. The more complicated you make something, the more opportunity for Mr Cock Up to visit.
chris stephens04/08/2011 23:22:34
1049 forum posts
1 photos
Hi Guys,
Take a look at Machine DRO, they do a tool height gauge or two.
chriStephens
Edit
PS no connection with the firm, except you could say I put them onto the items. 

Edited By chris stephens on 04/08/2011 23:25:08

Richard Willcox 104/08/2011 23:40:14
11 forum posts
And in 20 years time no one will be able to work without one !

Martin W05/08/2011 00:01:04
940 forum posts
30 photos
Hi
 
I might be wrong but I believe that if your lathe isn't dead level both X & Y axis then this kit is worse than useless as it will give a false reading when indicating true. Far better to turn off to a fine pip and make make a gauge using this tool height to the lathe bed.
 
If its a 'really must have item' then first get an engineers level and set your machine up to be spot on. It may work then but I wouldn't bet on it.
 
The other problem is that in the description it says that it is I quote; ' made not of plastic but of sturdy, anodized aluminum with an acrylic bubble vial'. How long is aluminium going last, even if it is anodised, being trapped between two hardened steel centres or between an HSS, or harder, tool tip and a metal bar !! Not long I think before the aluminium gets marked up with high spots etc. Not only that but you can't use it to correct any lateral offset errors between the headstock and tailstock.
 
 
Cheers from an old sceptic.
 
Martin

Edited By Martin W on 05/08/2011 00:15:33

chris stephens05/08/2011 02:39:20
1049 forum posts
1 photos
As for the lathe not being level, some of you might have seen the one I had on the SMEE stand at Ally Pally, which used a digital level. The advantage being that you could set "zero" on, say, the top slide and then "level" the tool height. These devices clearly work best on quick change tool posts, where the height is easily adjusted by screw, rather than standard ones where shims are needed. I made my digital one to see if the idea worked and it maybe a toy, but where would we be without our little playthings?
 
As for "anodized", well it depends on the style of anodizing, doesn't it. There is anodizing which is mostly decorative, pretty colours, and then there is the hard variety which is almost impossible to even scratch. I do suspect that the items in question are merely the pretty type, though.
 
An arch sceptic and cynic,
chriStephens
 
 
Jim Nolan05/08/2011 08:03:28
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77 forum posts

Having sold one lathe with a QCTP I am now back to a standard 4 way. So I now do far more tool setting than I ever did. I would recommend either of the edge technology setters now sold by Machine DRO. I have had one of the round bar types for a couple of years and its great. More recently I have purchased their latest version for when I already have bar stock in the chuck.

Quick accurate and easy to use and for people like me who’s lamp oil seems to dim the nearer you get to things looking at a nice big yellow bubble beats a ruler any day.
Jim

Oh I realise I have used some abbreviations in this post so just in case that kicks off another debate. If you don’t know do what I do stick it in Google the internet has an answer for just about anything.

 

Clive Foster05/08/2011 11:10:25
3630 forum posts
128 photos
I like the optical type as described in MEW some years back. Basically a thick lump of perspex fixed to a suitable base so it stands straight up having a line scribed at centre height on both sides with a mirror at 45° (ish) fixed to the back so you can look down and see the lines. When both lines and the tool tip are superimposed tool is on centre height.
 
Ideal for my Smart & Brown 1024 with its large areas of flat surfaces. Great thing is that you can scribe the lines in situ with a sharp centre. Obviously best for QCTP or Armstrong type holder systems where the tool height is easily adjusted by screw or sliding. Worth remembering that a fixed Armstrong holder makes a fairly good QC system if you simply swop tool bits and centre to centre height. Need system for interchange of bent right, bent left and boring tool holders but there are ways of doing it easy and inexpensive.
 
If shimming is your thing consider making an off lathe jig with an indicator to measure tip height from the tool base so you can sort shims immediately after sharpening. Alternatively mark the tool with paint dabs, alcohol based marker or whatever. Good source of shims is old hacksaw and band-saw blades with the teeth ground off. The plastic colour coded stuff is quite acceptable too being easy to organise but it does require an intermediate plate between it and the tool. Often thought that a good way would be to arrange your too grinding jig so the top grind is in suitable shim thickness steps so you know what you have.
 

Clive
John Hinkley05/08/2011 11:11:41
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1545 forum posts
484 photos
Alternatively, see page 32 of MEW issue 180. It works for me - but then I'm biassed!
 
John

jomac06/08/2011 09:32:29
113 forum posts

Hi, whats wrong with putting a pointed rod in either the chuck or the tail post chuck, and then adjust the hight, I glue my shims to the base of the tools, with contact adhesive, then screw down the lock bolts to squeeze out any glue, that way they dont get lost, As I have many tools, I dont need to sharpen them very often, so new shims are not required on a regular basis, especially if using insert type tooling. Works for me!!!!.

John Holloway.

John Stevenson06/08/2011 10:04:12
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5068 forum posts
3 photos
Why even bother bringing it up ?
 
Mark 1 eyeball to get as close as possible, light facing cut and watch the pip, adjust to suit.
 
Far quicker than even looking for some gismo and at the end of the day the pip tells you what is, not some bit of fancy tat that may not give the required result anyway regardless of what it says.
 
I can set a tool up in 10 seconds max doing it this way and I know it's correct because the machine tells me.
 
John S.
NJH06/08/2011 10:31:46
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2314 forum posts
139 photos

Made this 35 years and 4 lathes ago - still works every time!
Cost - nothing.
 
Regards
 
Norman
 

Edited By NJH on 06/08/2011 10:35:46

Ian S C06/08/2011 11:08:17
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7468 forum posts
230 photos
No photo, but mine may be even simpler, and cheaper, I just put a center in the mandrel, used it as a scriber, Took the 6" square and marked a line across the blade. Ian S C
Chris Trice06/08/2011 11:14:29
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1376 forum posts
10 photos
I use the same as NJH too. It serves the same purpose as the pip (which also works) but you can set the tool correctly straight off without having to take a cut each time. If you change tools halfway through a job (which has been known), how can you use the pip without unchucking the workpiece and chucking a fresh piece of metal which you have to do if the work is centre drilled each end?

Edited By Chris Trice on 06/08/2011 11:17:47

Bogstandard06/08/2011 11:39:36
263 forum posts
This is how I got around my tool centre height setting. Maybe a bit long winded, but it does go into reasons for NOT using certain methods.
 
 
 
 
John
John Stevenson06/08/2011 11:47:16
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5068 forum posts
3 photos
Use the centre rings left from the last cut or if centre drilled and it's not a number 37 centre drill with a pilot of 1 1/4" then eyeball it.
 
Contrary to what many think the tool doesn't have to be on centre to nanognatsbollocks , in fact I have always been of the opinion that on small lathes setting to centre high using a gauge will actually leave a pip as real world forces push the tool lower due to lack of rigidity.
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