'Desktop' lathe

Some years ago a bought a chinese mini-lathe, which I installed in the spare room of my bachelor pad & used for many a happy hour. Roll on a few years, I've got married & the lathe is relegated to a shed at the bottom of the garden.
Despite attempting to insulate the shed, it's not an ideal working environment & the lathe has had little use since.
The wife's youngest has now left uni and has intentions to fly the nest in the next few months. As we will have a surplus of rooms, she has suggested, completely unprompted, that I might like to convert one of the spare bedrooms into a workshop. Naturally, I didn't think long about it!

Anyway, to the crux of my question. I'm considering taking the opportunity to upgrade the lathe at the same time. Now a know all the arguments about chinese lathes being perfectly fine once set up, and all lathes need to be set up to some extent etc etc but I would like if possible to buy something a bit more 'quality'.
I would love a Myford but obviously weight & size preclude that, so I've been looking at what else is available. Dismissing anything chinese, all I've mamaged to come up with are the following manufacturers....

Hobbymat MD65 - might take a while to find a decent one. The majority of those I've seen for sale look as if they've had a hard life.

Proxxon - I recall seeing on another thread that they're considered good quality but over-priced.

Wabeco - no idea of the quality but the prices seem eyewatering!

Cowells - a bit too small but if needs must.....
(Incidentally, are Cowells still in business? Their website doesn't look as if it's been updated for years & prices still mention VAT at 20%. On the other hand, someone must be still paying for the webhosting)

Has anyone got any suggestions of anything else I've missed?
Thanks
Brian

Don't see why you're questioning the Cowells website, the price list states prices valid until 31/09/2015 (!!) and the UK vat rate is still 20%, also be aware that you have to add vat to the prices shown.

Whoops - missed that one!

I must admit that I thought VAT was 17.5%

Brian

Myford ML10? Obviously second hand but I am sure good ones come up for sale.

However I would love a Cowell if I lost my workshop.

JA

I'd dismissed a Myford (ML7) as being way too big & heavy. Presumably the ML10 isn't substantially different in that respect?

Brian

> VAT at 20%

Cripes! You gave me the heebie-jeebies there!

I think you may regret it if you change to a smaller lathe.

An ML7 isn't actually very much bigger than a mini-lathe and is much more affordable than a S7 - but while enjoying the quality you might still end up missing a few of the features of the mini lathe <ducks>.

If a Myford is too big, the if you want to go 'up market' and keep mini-lathe capacity you haven't many options.

The other choice is finding a smaller vintage lathe of about 3 1/2 capacity and doing it up, which could be a hobby in its own right.

Neil

(VAT registered...)

Brian

I had an ML 10 for some years and got on well with it. By removing the motor and tail stock it is moveable single handed - upstairs though it would be a good move to enrol the help of a mate in exchange for some beer tokens! The M L10 does lack some of the refinements but is a solid little machine and capable of good work. I PXd it for a very low mileage Super 7 which suits me just fine - but I wouldn't want to move it upstairs!

Regards

Norman

I wouldn't worry too much about weight up stairs other than getting things up there - not so sure about modern timber frame houses. To give you some idea I have had several lathes resting on top of a kitchen unit. Peatol, Hobbymat, ML7 and now a Boxford. Downstairs now though but I did have a Viceroy on the top floor complete with stand, all it's chucks, a full set of change wheels and 3hp motor. The cabinet spreads the weight so the floor loading isn't as high as people might think. Currently I have a miller with a 4ft table and rather hefty pillar drill up there along with a band saw and a radial arm saw - 2 actually but one is due to go. I wasn't keen on the Viceroy. Mentioned as I found a couple of odd facts about it.

In terms of getting things up there a lathe in pieces needn't be that bad. Myfords and Boxfords in particular but the Boxford bed etc is significantly heavier than a Myford and even with the bed 2 people might be a good idea. The myfords are more related to one's strength. Floor loading - it's easy to get several hundred kg of people standing in a small area even in a shed. By pieces I mean, bed, headstock, motor, tray, saddle etc. A stand for either is likely to need another person.

This approach might widen your scope somewhat but much depends on what you want to make. Going heavy my personal feeling is Boxfords have a lot to offer but can work out more expensive if they don't come with the right gear.

My personal feeling looking at Chinese lathes is that it isn't wise to go for ones that weigh much less than 60kg but much depends on what you want to do. I also get the impression that 100kg and plus is likely to be better but have no experiences with people I know at that weight.

The thicker kitchen work surfaces make excellent bench tops and the better quality kitchen units under them are pretty strong too. Must admit the one under my lathe probably came from the 60's so is wooden framed and ply topped - about 5/8".

John

-

I'd suggest you also keep a lookout for Emco lathes, either the Compact 5 or Compact 8. Whilst the modern ones are made in China, there are older ones around that were made in Austria. I bought a Compact 8 for less money than I received when I sold my Hobbymat MD65 - it's a much better lathe and seems to have had very little use. I wouldn't personally recommend a Hobbymat, as many of them are badly worn. The Compact 8 is just about liftable by one person, so shouldn't be a problem if you have to get it upstairs. If you are installing a lathe in an upstairs bedroom, transmitted noise to the room below will be your biggest problem. I bought a bungalow for a reason!

Brian, don't dismiss the Chinese lathes, have a look at the Sieg , start at the Super C3, it weighs about 50 kg.

Ian S C

There is some very good work turned out on the Sherline range of lathes all would easily fit on a desktop. UK distributor is Millhill Supplies

An ML7 should be ok upstairs if you lay something like a bit of kitchen worktop under the stand to strengthen the floor. Many ML7s are put onto thin shed floors with no problems.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 25/08/2015 17:51:14

That was more or less the conclusion I'd come to.

Brian

Interesting.... I'd thought that the ML10 was the same size as the ML7 but just lacking some features. Having had a quick look, I see it is (was) a tad smaller. Definitely something to think about.

Brian

If you do buy an ML10 which for what they are do seem to be good lathes I would suggest you get the later version with the taper roller bearings - they can be changed if needed - not so the plain cast iron clamp up ones with a pinch screw on one side. If you look at ML10's on lathes co uk it's easy to see the difference. The taper rollers are adjustable anyway.

They too are a lot lighter with the head stock and tailstock off.

I'm surprised about comments about noise through the floor but this place was built in 1911 and we can't hear people walking about upstairs unless they tread rather heavily.

Floor loading - over a decent area even a boxford is much less than me standing on the floor., Seems I should be careful about what houses I go into, 98kg so maybe I shouldn't stand with my feet together. Even spread over a few square feet a lathe wont reach that sort of loading. Houses have to be built to stand higher loads than me.

Am I fat - afraid not.

John

-

For six years in the 1970s I lived in a new 4 bed house, I had a Myford S7 in our rear bedroom along with a Fobco drill,flooring was tongue and grooved timber,I removed the motor,top slide ,tailstock and two people carried it upstairs. We also had a 16 cubic foot freezer in the front bedroom which when loaded was probably heavier than the lathe.Did not reinforce the floor,just positioned the feet of the stand over the floor joists.

Brian,

I agree that the [later model] ML10 would seem your ideal choice.

I very seriously considered buying one myself, last year.

However: Do be sure to check the bed for wear. ... Whilst researching them, I came across this brief document which mentions that [unlike the 7] the bed will only take one regrind.

Lovely little lathe ... But buy a good one !!

MichaelG.

Nigel makes the point I was trying to make and the 7's are light lathes when dismantled - buying a good one can be tough in my opinion. They have suffered from their relatively low price - ideal for a cheap lathe to work to death. Some "model engineers" work at it full time too.

At well under 2 of me and even me and the wife I think this one shows what an increase in weight tends to do on the chinese lathes

**LINK**

I think that one doesn't have the low spindle speed gear problem - loads of noise to what I feel is an unacceptable level and uses a belt drive to change speed range. That can be a problem on some of them. I'm not sure on this one. They do seem to have a wider saddle than some as well which helps with stability and wear. That's where lathes like the ML10 fall down. It's no where near as wide as the Boxford arrangement though. Maybe some one has one and can comment on noise and vibration but the latter aught to be low on any lathe. I look every now and again and for real work this is the lowest one i would consider. It also from the review needs less titivating than some.

Usually removing the saddle, tail stock, motor and any shielding etc even the chuck reduces the weight of a lathe significantly. The saddle can usually be taken off by simply removing the end of the lead screw and winding it off. Some one to help keep it level can prevent it jamming on the half nuts.

I'd be rather surprised if the weight of this one caused an Ikea kitchen unit any problems if fitted with the thicker kitchen work surface. I've stood on a number of kitchen units.

I managed a boxford on my own out of the car with most of the bits on via a plank, moving it end on via a B&Q sack truck that was shorter than the lathe. That's not that difficult. I then removed bits but left the head stock on. I managed to get the head end on some step ladders that were lower than the bench it's on. I then managed to get the tail stock end on the bench with the idea of lifting one end at a time which is much easier. Then came the head stock end. I could lift it to bench heigh but found I couldn't get it completely over the bench or put it down again. Fortunately I had a 4ft long crow bar handy which my wife passed to me. If anyone does try a Boxford while in my case 2 people managed to get it into the car whole by sliding and lifting it with a plank an end at a time DON'T try to finally position it with the head stock on. It's a serious piece of metal. All it needs to get it off is a correctly bent combination spanner. The ME10 is the only bench lathe. The belt is best cut to remove the head on the under drive lathes which means replacing it with T - link belting. The cabinets are surprisingly heavy as well. The Myford 7 one isn't too bad.

John

-

Nothing to do with me but there is an improved ML10 on ebay at the moment - a long bed Speed 10. Claimed less than 5hrs of use but it's serial number dates it to the early 80's. These have 18in between centres which is a useful improvement. It's on a simple stand but just comes with a 3 jaw chuck. It would be better if it came with change wheels really. It might take a while to build up a collection of used ones.

Personally with a claim like that I would use paypal for payment just in case. Yesterday I guided the seller through how to tell if it's a metric or imperial lathe. It isn't all that unusual for a dealer to not know much about what they sell. He was very helpful.

Price - my immediate reaction was too much but if virtually ex factory I don't know really. I suppose it's pretty good.

John

-

Don't know if it's gone already but I can't find it. I was only interested in seeing what sort of a price these things go for - looking at the few I've seen advertised, £500 - £600 seems to be the sort of range. That seems low to me - is it because nobody wants this model or have I just looked at worn & tired examples?

Anyway, I won't be buying anything for a few months yet - thanks for all the comments.

Brian