The Greatest Mechanical invention

I should have added the link for the oldest Differential - 'South Pointing Chariot' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pointing_Chariot, which while not being exactly 'south seeking' was used by the chinese to point to their villiage of origin when they set out on a crusade.

Saw this in the Beijing Museum some years back

Hi Lofty,

You can embed links by attaching it to a word or phrase. When composing, highlight a phrase such a 'South Seeking Chariot' then click the 'Link' icon in the 2nd box from right, lower row of icons. This is not the best Forum software in the world .

As the Wikipedia entry says the chariot would have been set at the beginning of the journey but would have become inaccurate after a few days, I suppose due partly to rough ground and handling. However the Chinest would know that and it is possible that the chariot could be 'rebooted' by adjusting the pointer to the midday sun each day. I suspect that the Chinese did not have the concept of N and S as we conceive of it, but simply a sense of direction and used the chariot to point to the sun at midday. The chariot could then be used as a reference during the days march.

Regards

Terry

Terry [and others],

Any thoughts on the conceptual relationship between the "South Pointing Chariot" and modern Inertial Navigation systems ?

Evolution, or Revolution ?

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/10/2012 09:27:19

Cheers Terry, I was wondering how the link thing worked, Much obliged.

Hi Michael,

I would have thought revolution was more likely. How many times have we seen ancient developments which have come to a dead end and then re-emerge when the need and technology allows. It is obvious that the Chinese developed the differential mechanism but it didn't develop until it was re 'invented' when the need arose in the motor car. I see the same with the Antikythera mechanism, there was no reason that the Greeks, if they were this capable could surely have made clocks if there was a need and if they had (or could develop) the technology to make springs or other means of storing the necessary energy.

Perhaps there are universal principles which emerge as need and technology coincide to demand their development into useful devices, and this repeats itself through history in different contexts and different technologies. Thinking of this brings to mind the iPad and Android devices which use gyroscopic effects to sense movement and positiion in a tiny hand held device. Mankind is indeed ingenious.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 21/10/2012 13:05:23

Inertial navigation using the principle of a Gyro and a light beam through an aperture to a reader system, they fitted one to Land Rovers via the speedo cable and it was quite good to about 10 - 20 meters after 20Kms. Used Grid Ref. settings, off OS maps. Set the parameters and drive until both readouts were '0'. You still had to map read anyway to get the best route.

Problems with the drive cables unravelling in their casings due to the small flywheel attached to the drive over running when the vehicle slowed down quickly.

Eventually withdrawn as too 'Iffy' and unreliable mechanically.

Clive

With a ship/boat, if you make landfall within 10 miles then you are a good navigator. Having sailed across the Atlantic in a 15Mtr. yacht the first sight of land after three weeks is very moving emotionally and mentally after three weeks on the sea.

We used way points that we used as markers and the daughter in law was a navigator and set these points which we sailed to and then reset to another. The display showed the sillouhette of a yacht sailing down a 3 mile wide channel and as long as we stayed in that channel on the display we arrived at at said waypoint. Navigating on sight of land was then by sight and chart.

Clive

My triumph of navigation was finding the summit of Cairngorm in fog with between 10 - 20 yards visibility one February morning.

On the way down we crossed alon the top of a large snow drift and I warned my mate about the risk of the edge being a cornice. The next day it avalanched killing two people.

Neil

Michael Williams - Your Nav tale brings back memories of my Valetta conversion course back in the 50s. One of the course exercises was a night Navex around the North Sea. Navigator's charts and logs were handed in for inspection after flight and marked for accuracy/activity etc. One chap produced an immaculate track plot which showed remarkable accuracy all the way round with the major plots coming from 'running fixes' on an MF radio beacon (I even remember the callsign - MQI!!). The oddity about this beacon was that it was (according to the Nav's plot, in the MIDDLE of the N Sea!. Further investigation revealed that it didn't exist and that all the fixes were 'back-plotted' i.e. drawn in to 'agree' with where he should have been. This was ultimately ascribed to hypoxia - 8000', not on oxygen ... hmm!

Said Nav aquired the nick-name'Mike Queenie Item' and was posted to El Adem as ...Station Navigation Officer!!! The ways of Auntie Betty's Flying Club are, indeed, weird and wonderful

Rgds

Bill

I had to laugh as my son and wife were plotting a course in the middle of the Atlantic using a blow up world ballon, she was showing him what a Rhumline was and how it affected navigation.

It is a path that follows the earths curvature as you dont navigate in straight lines.

The middle of the atlantic is full of life, birds and porpoise that came by the boat every morning and we were lucky to see a Right Whale.Flying fish plopped on deck as they were disturbed by the boat, also caught a 10kg Dorado which we ate the same day.

flotsam and wreckage abound as its carried around by the currents, we followed a line of empty wine bottles for ages but never saw the drinker and his boat. The Japanese trawlers were everywhere and a large mother ship.

Clive

Hi all,

Back to the thread - sorry . I have just had my memory jogged and I think that in modern times one of the greates mechanical inventions, rather an evolution, was the safety bicycle. It came about around 1885 and within 10 years had revolutionised personal transport and industry

For those who don't know, the 'Safety Bicycle' was the forerunner of our modern bicycle with a crank and chain drive, trapezoidal tubular frame, pneumatic tyres brakes and steering. It was designed and made by J K Starley in Coventry. Previously bicycles and tricycles (mostly for women) were heavy, cumbersome and very expensive and some were very dangerous - the penny farthing, or 'Ordinary' was a deathtrap. until the Rover 'safety' ait was called a bicycle was way outside the means of an ordinary man or woman.

This invention led to quite significant social change. For the first time individual transport was available and men could get work at more distance than they could walk which meant more opportunity. Men and women could enjoy more leisure and get away from drab surroundings into the countryside.

Quote:-

"Even as the public eagerly awaited affordable automobiles, it rightly regarded the safety bicycle as one of the great technical and social contributions of the Victorian age. And although the humble bicycle would never again rule the road as it had in the last quarter of the nineteenth century, it offered new and compelling opportunities for technical and commercial development."

History of The Bicycle -2004 by David V. Herlihy

This picture from 1894 shows how fast the technology had developed:

Regards

Terry

My sister tells the tale of how one night between Fiji an Vanuatu on their 16 M Catamaran, Don accidentaly bumped on of the throttle levers, dropping the revs to one engine, my sister heard the change in engine noise, but Don did not as he was partially deaf. Navigation was by GPS, with the course showing on a screen, and when Anne arrived at the helm the boat was making a large circle, you'v got to take note of whats going on. I think that 1/2 an hour and all back on the origional course.Unfortunately Don and Anne came home that year for Christmas(6yrs ago),and Don had a heart attack, and died, or they would still be motoring on, they intended heading for the Suez, and the Med.

As well as the GPS, they also had, and used a sextant, so were not entirely reliant on electronics.

Ian S C

How did they manipulate the wrought iron, a hammer and and anvil ! Every thing has a follow on as with the anvil then the trip hammer and the forge.

The Blacksmith, hence the name Smith etc. Horseshoes were important as were axles and wheel hubs leading to the Wheel Right and then onwards again up the ladder of development.

Clive

That's sort of correct but as with all these things it's quite complex great circle,rhumb line, what kind of map, what's the distance grr.

Edited By chris j on 22/10/2012 15:25:46

I guess that's true, complex eh.

Reminder: Don't forget to watch Part 2.

MichaelG.

Hi Steve,

Animals are known to make limited use of tools such as you mention but it is strictly a single use. The hammer as opposed to a stone is a deliberately fashioned and constructed versatile tool. For the first time a poorly equipped relatively defensive ape, i.e. early man could easily kill other animals instead of scavaging the left overs from other hunters or harvesting roots and seeds. They could defend themselves. The hammer could be used to smash open the tough hide of animals and break bones to release the nourishing marrow.  The hammer could be used to make other tools in the same way that the lathe did in the industrial revolution - no blackbird does that.  He sees the stone as an anvil and nothing more.

It is thought that the increase in meat content of the early man's diet was a major factor in increasing brain size and capacity because of the high protein content.

This is my post No 1666 so I should mention The Great Fire of London!

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 24/10/2012 11:57:45

The "great motivator" for any advancements in a species is hunger, the quest for food

From watching stuff over the last 20 years of dogwalking I'm guessing that crows would have become the dominant species if humans hadn't come along

Us humans are a serious genetic anomaly

Dinosaurs didn't build a mud hut in 200 million years

Humans are on the moon in 10

The real key to species survival is getting off planet earth before it's turned into toast from a big rock etc