Helping young people

Today, it appears to me that most young people want to be a footballer, marry a footballer, win the lottery/bingo/scratch card and supplement their income by making some sort of claim, prompted by some very intrusive advertising. There is one advert running on the local radio station for a firm of solicitors which claims (or strongly infers) that it "costs your employer nothing, it is the insurance that pays out - as if it were some sort of bottomless pit.

On Saturday, walking around Harrogate, my friend - who has no vested interest in any of this - remarked on how few children there were walking about and that as a child he "would have loved to come here". Maybe we need to look at educating some of the parents?

graham.

Don't know if it would work in UK, but I would get to know the parents, work out the doe's and don's, and sort out what's going to happen, then do it. It might be easier for me here, because although the place is bigger now than when I arrived 30 years ago, the population is just a bit over 2000, so not much happens that nobody knows about.

Ian S C

I sometimes think we live in a very sick society where most of us can see things that we would change for the better but there doesn't seem to be an easy way of changing them. Those with right-wing views blame the loony left and provide examples of councils and hospitals wasting money and creating pointless jobs. Those with left-wing views blame unrestrained free market capitalism with examples of big business getting away with not paying taxes and abuse of workers rights. While we are all blaming each other the rich elite are doing very nicely, thank you, and are not being troubled by the likes of us lot.

But there are many things we could probably all agree on. As a minor example, who here is in favour of unsolicited phone calls from overseas. I bet they annoy all of us. Or how about junk mail? If I want something I am quite capable of finding out who can supply it.

Not that long ago all the staff at my place of employment were forced to be CRB checked because some parts of the organisation deal with children and vulnerable adults. In the area where I work we have no contact with either and some of us objected to this as unnecessary and a waste of time and money. To do it properly the manager of each group should review their staff and decide which ones needed checking but they decided it was easier to issue a blanket policy. We even contacted the CRB people themselves and were told we were correct. Nevertheless the management threatened us with disciplinary action for causing them trouble. We reluctantly complied feeling we had made our point. The thing that amused us was that "Human Resources" were shocked that some people were prepared to stand up to one of their diktats. I seem to spend less and less time doing the job I started thirty years ago and more time enabling others to tick boxes.

Sorry for the long rant and thanks for reading it.

Gary - looking forward to retirement.

Another big problem with the CRB checks is the cost, my wife has to get them often. I think it's about £50 now each time. All it does is prove you don't have a record.

As I see it politics is the one job you need no qualifications or training for. They all spend their time blaming every one else/every thing else, they should take a leaf out of the Japanese philosophy do not worry about blame just fix it.

Any of the checks CBR or otherwise does not mean children are 100% safe all it means is there is no one who has a record, there is still a chance there is a person who is capable of child abuse but has yet to be caught after all it took 25 + years to convict Peter Wright. So for 25 years after the offence he would have passed a CBR check.

CBR checks for voluntary work are free

Do you know - hassle, agro, politics, intrusive society , cost of CRB checks? I DON'T CARE. If just ONE child is saved from abuse as a result of checking then, in my book, they are worthwhile.

Norman

A rare post from Stub Mandrel...

Having run an organisation that dealt with all these issues, and part of a bigger federation that probably did as many activities with school age young people as any other in the UK, I can say this thread is a mine of both truth and total mis-information.

I had staff who were continually frustrated by schools who used CRB checks of people who had no contact with pupils (let alone the recurring contact which is supposed to be needed) as a proxy for effective and sensible child safety policies. This was brought home to me when I went to visit a school. I turned up at the door, pressed the buzzer, and a disembodied voice asked what I want. I said 'I have an appointment with <the head teacher>'. The door buzzed and unlocked and I was given directions, without even being asked for my name.

I could have been a parent with a restriction on access to their child, I could have been anyone capable of reading the Head's name on the notice outside. I bet they had all the requisite checks and policies in place when inspected by OFSTED.

That said, with staff who have the right attitude and understanding of child safety issues, the sky is the limit and you can do adventurous and rewarding activities with young people safely.

Neil (in civvies).

CRB check is £40 but can take up to a fortnight, £80 gets you a CRB check in 48 hours. But you have to pay by cheque and no check is carried out until the cheque is cleared. You do the math.

graham.

I'd just like to add, good luck to Bob in doing what is undoubtedly a worthwhile thing. I also think we need to build a lot more resilience into society for the future. One reason I got into model engineering was as an offshoot of wanting to be able to repair things instead of throwing them out, so my main motivation is learning how to use the tools. I also like the freedom of being my own boss while in the 'shop.

Gary

Bob,

I have sent you a PM on this subject. Please have a read.

Thanks, Ketan.

This is my last word on this subject.

My eldest son, who is now well into his thirties (!!!) works in one of the most deprived estates in Middlesbrough as something senior to do with youths and children. (I will not enlarge upon that).

He also works some weeks and weekends as "Housemaster" - they don't call it that anymore though - in homes where a variety of children are housed. Some of these children are so abused that the stories are harrowing. Others are so out of control they are locked up for their own safety and for the safety of those around them.

This boy of mine is the most disorganised person. I could weep when he calls me up about checking oil or tyre pressures or windscreen washer fluid (yes, really) as it is a reqular question and answer session, the same as the last time he called but I keep my mouth shut. Because we all cannot be everything. But my eldest has a natural talent. Children of all ages love him and trust him. He has made terrific progress in a job that I personally didn't think he would like. He has been interviewed and written about. With some of the children - 6 years to sixteen is the age group he usually works with - he has made real progress. It is not a job I could do, he loves it.

He has had his car stolen twice and burned out once, by the same kids he is trying to help (well, their "mates" really). You have got to be made of different stuff to do this as he just shrugs it off. AT LEAST three days a month are 'development' days where he is forever going on one course or another just to keep up with changes and changing legislation.

If you manage to get this off the ground Bob, in any form, my hat goes off to you.

graham.

Hi all...

Although it has been some time (4 yrs) since the last post on this thread which covered many aspects of the problems..but could anyone tell me if anything has changed..? do schools now have any more practical technology subjects apart from cooking? are there any more youngsters seen at Model Engineering shows?... are there any tv programs which feature model engineering? or practical skill programs aimed at youngsters..?

I am enquiring about this for my own interest and someone at the uk school of child education sciences who is doing a research project on the subject and seeks the opinions and/or experiences of model engineers and hopefully he will join the forum.

After visiting a number of Model Engineering shows I have to say it looked more like a Darby & Joan club meeting with older gentlemen in preponderance with very few youngsters, is there a connection between this and the running down of school interest in engineering skills..?

...Bob..

That's a very pertinent point you make Andy.

Maybe we're a dying breed

Similar to wheelwrights and bodgers

I don't think so. Andy has a good point, but in our case the recruits are more likely to be drawn from the recently retired.

Geoff

Thanks Andy, Daniel..

my opinion is that although there is very much a place for new technology in schools and as you point out this is what engineers would need in a technological environment but I can't help thinking it is all a bit one sided.

Is education all about fitting a person in place for a certain type of employment environment, should it not rather be a case of letting youngsters have a go at traditional skills as well where he or she would get a feel for the material and tools in their hands...hand and eye coordination.?

It might be that some youngsters would get excited about doing practical things but who knows if they don't get a chance..? I know I was.... I'm in agreement with you about asking a youngster to build a model loco..to be honest it is something I would struggle at myself along with many others, but there are lots of other things to be made.

I can only say that thank God I was educated in the 1960's, although my occupation for many years has been an electronics/communications engineer, at school we were introduced to pottery, woodwork, metalwork, even gardening and this has stood me in good stead when it came to doing things around the home and sometimes in the workplace.

I will say that these days we have a throw away society, for one thing the goods bought today seem to have built in redundancy and are engineered in order so no repair can be undertaken, but not all things are like this.

I was amazed when a very well educated chap moved in next door, a product of these new ideas of education, he wondered if I could put a mirror up for him on the wall..! one nail later it was done... then he had an ill fitting door which needed a little work with a plane..in 10 minutes job done...could I come round a fit a garden gate...? he had read the instructions and didn't want to bother me again, but couldn't fathom out why his drill bits wouldn't penetrate the bricks... to be honest it was if he had come from another planet!

Well I don't think my ramblings will alter things, to be honest I just think the real reason for not teaching traditional skills in schools is that it is much more cost effective to keep a healthy distance from them.

...Bob...

Oh I don't know, seems pretty bright to me; after all he got someone else to do all his jobs for free.

Andrew

Peter Hall, " Those were the days my friend " !!! When I was doing metalwork,we were required to show our skills in forging by making,wait for it-----Pike Heads ! [as used in 1798] I,m not kidding.

Our teacher was a very practical.man but I suppose if he was around today,he would be arrested and locked up.

His advice was to make sure we got at least one burn,so as to be more careful next time. It worked.

In the last place I worked,a large engineering works,H&S was so far down the list that it did not exist,so we just got on with it.

To Ady 1, Yes,you are right,over here the Nanny State is still in the early stages [but growing ] We do tend to just get on with the job,but Big Brother is watching. When it comes to passing on whatever skills we have,one needs to be very careful. I,for one,never allow any children into my workshop,with or without their parents. The urge to touch or turn something is just too great and the result can be just too bad. Then YOU are to blame. Yes,I would like to pass on what little I know, ---but ! That is how I learned,by getting cuts and knocks,and burns,but I,m still around and know what to watch for.

So while I think this is a great idea [wish it was around in my time ] it needs to be carefully thought through.

Good luck with it and let us know how it goes,

Regards,

Larry.