Gatwick Drone 'Attack'

Once bullets start flying, I wouldn't trust anyone to be able to follow their training.

Seems like quite a lot of risk assements either aren't done, are done but poorly, or ignored. How else could Grenfell Tower come about and what about the other ~ 350 UK towers clad win a similar way?

I don't give blind faith to something just because it's been risk assessed - as per my previous comment, how come no seatbelts on buses & trams?

Martin.

We have little choice about where the terrorists choose to fight their battles but they must be challenged wherever it may be.

Mike

Second biggest political party in NI (and significant influence on the biggest party by headcases on the other side), devolved government (when they stop playing with themselves), representation at Westminster (if and when SF ever decide to take their seats). I'm most definitely no apologist for any of them, but they will argue that little of this would have been achieved without years of mindless violence. Moderate politics has been snuffed out in Northern Ireland due to decades of terrorism. Not exactly terrorism, but female suffrage was brought about by significant civil disobedience, Gandhi had his moments (albeit peaceful) and Nelson Mandela is perhaps the best known example of "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". There are many examples around the world where illegal violence against innocent civilians has resulted in great social change whether we like the smell of it or not. Sorry to have rattled on ... Time for a Christmas sherry and a mince pie. Peace and love to everyone.

Mods - any chance of the "No sex, politics or religion" embargo being activated. please?

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, he/she/they are at it again apparently

A question for those interested - How many aircraft/people have been killed or injured by bird strikes and how many by drones/model aircraft?? Second question - How many times have airfields been closed by sightings of bird flocks in the vicinity??

Discuss - if you feel so inclined.

rgds

Bill

Oh yes agreed, seeing police officers with firearms at Gatwick waiting for a drone to fly over was quite worrying. What I was suggesting though is that a trained army sniper would be a far better choice than a police officer if anyone was ever stupid enough to authorise it. The police shouldn’t handle firearms:

**LINK**

What's wrong with shotguns?

Brian

I should like to know what damage the drones are capable of inflicting from someone who actually knows, not presumes.

While hitting anything in a plane is not recommended; is hitting a plastic and light alloy drone worse than hitting say a swan or goose, or even sucking up some debris on landing?

I don't know and would like to have an idea of the actual risk assessment if anyone can help.

I am wondering if the danger is like that from mobile phones in petrol stations - totally illegal, not advisable, but no recorded dangerous incidents anywhere apparently!

There was a clip on the news yesterday showing simulation of a drone going straight into the leading edge of a wing did a lot of damage

Edited By JasonB on 21/12/2018 18:56:32

Edited By JasonB on 21/12/2018 18:57:59

But who was the simulation from, and is it based on experiment or assumption? Sorry just seen your clip - it took a few moments to load

Thanks for the suggestion Jason, but the cynic in me has seen too many items on the news that are (with perfectly honest intent) designed to show the possible not the probably or likely.

One thought is that a drone might be sucked into an engine or hit a windscreen, but if heading towards the wing wouldn't it be carried over the wing - isn't that what an aerofoil is supposed to do? In this example there is no continuous airflow over the wing to take the drone over it and while this drone penetrated the bird replica appeared to damage a larger part of the wing structure. 

Thanks again,

Nick

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 21/12/2018 19:05:47

Edited By Nick Clarke 3 on 21/12/2018 19:10:22

About the only way to safely bring down a drone is concentrated lasers. Some are pre programed now. Not controlled at all from the handset/ controller. Some use a GPS, or use the handset/controller for a reference position. There is no constant signal going to the drone, like a regular RC plane or the early controlled drones. So you cant just easily find the person controlling the drone, depending on the size and type of course. Yeah a drone into an aircraft does have the potential to do real damage. Firing projectiles at drones is almost useless , with a high certainty of what ever you are firing at the drone, also ending up where you dont want these pieces to land. Being as it is an airport, Lasers are the best solution, and should target the drone a safe distance from the runway as well as a known no fly zone. So drones near the vacinity should be automatically removed, and destroyed.

Governments have no clue for laws, as they themselves want and need drones in modern warfare.

Neil

Nick if a drone was to come into contact with an aircraft wing it would cause substantial damage and contrary to the perception that airflow would direct it around the aerofoil section it would travel in a straight line into the aerofoil leading edge. Birds of all sizes frequently hit aircraft wings and when they do, although they are relatively soft and squishy compared to a drone, they penetrate for a fair distance into the wing structure. I have referred to wings as the area that would suffer as more often than not that is where birds come into contact with aircraft. I have removed the remains of birds from wing structure after they have penetrated and it is amazing how much damage they cause. Trust me when you are flying you don’t want to come into contact with birds, no matter what their size, and you definitely do not want to hit a solid object such as a drone.

Dave W

Dave - Thank you for the benefit of your direct experience.

Where I am still in a quandary is that while bird strikes are accepted as a risk of flying and aircraft are built to accept this, why the major shutdown for these drones. Are they so much more of a danger?

Even my meagre knowledge of aviation tells me that an aircraft on take off fully loaded with passengers, fuel and baggage can ill afford the loss of an engine, once they are cruising an engine loss can be covered by the other engine but it still keeps the pilots busy, trying to keep it straight for instance. Years ago I had a friend who worked on Vulcan engines and if a bird went into the intake it could do some very serious damage.

Martin P

Nick, the size of the drone has been estimated at about four feet across, considerably more mass than birds that usually come into contact with aircraft, an object of that size has the potential to cause catastrophic damage compared to a bird strike which is usually survivable. Again I reiterate I would certainly not want to come into contact with an object such as a drone of that size and mass and I think that the reaction of the aviation authorities in relation to this incident has been undoubtedly the correct one.

Dave W

The people caught up in the rampage of Khalid Masood might disagree, as, respectfully, do I.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 21/12/2018 20:58:36

It's worth remembering that if this drone is able to stay aloft for a few hours then it likely has a substanial lipo on board and once damaged they burn with very corrosive fumes. I've seen r/c helis with twin 6S 5AH packs go up on crashing... entertaining if not one's own. Quite what that would to to a jet engine would be less amusing.

Two arrests have been made. Result!

Bird strike testing:-
**LINK**

**LINK**

Apparently the Military deployed Israeli developed anti-drone technology. Some details here UK army deploys Rafael's Drone Dome at Gatwick airport

However the system purchased by the UK did not include lasers that can disable a drone in seconds:
"The Drone Dome system intercepts drones using laser beams that burn it in flight in a few seconds. The version sold to the UK lacks the laser beam interception option because the UK demanded that it be deployed quickly and the need to comply with regulation governing the use of lasers."

Clive

A few posters above - Please keep to the drone issue..

Neil