Not a "modeller"!

D.A.G. - Love you to be the editor, How about you volunteer?

Rik

IKB was very well educated but after completing his studies at Lycee Henri IV he was not admitted to the Ecole Polytechnique but was briefly apprenticed to Breguet the watchmaker before joining his father's business at the age of 16.

Marc Brunel entered the French navy at 17 and was in it for 6 years before moving to the US where he eventually became chief engineer to New York .

A sterile argument really, since there were no engineering degrees available in those days. The closest they could have done was mathematics, but e.g Kings College in London only started awarding those in 1830. These guys and their contemporaries invented mechanical engineering as we know it, mostly from a background of civil engineering.

Cheers,

Rod

I think Chartered Engineer is the title that should have the respect of most people in engineering. The ones I have dealt with have all been worthy of the title.

Mike

i dont consider myself an 'engineer'... im a pure untrained amateur hobbyist.

in the miniature loco world there is a very important distinction i believe following on from LBSC. his locos were 'miniatures'. 'model' railways and locos etc are of smaller scale that dont work as per fullsize ie electric motor fitted inside. the term 'model engineer' however is generic, and covers those who build miniature locos, but not those who build 'model railways'.

confusing perhaps! not if you see a live steam miniature loco - it isnt a 'model' but a faithfully working 'miniature' version of fullsize. this is perhaps something particular to working miniatures such as I.C. engines, traction engines , and steam locos.

whether the builder has any qualifications or training or is an engineer is of no concern to me at all!

cheers,

julian

That seems to be true in the UK. In some other jurisdictions (most of North America for example) the use of the term "Engineer" is limited to those registered with and licensed by the appropriate state/provincial Engineering Institution.

License is gained by sitting the exams of that Institution or getting exemption from them via a (minimum) Bachelor's Engineering Degree from an approved university.

Unlicensed use of the title "Engineer" may lead to legal action.

I agree that there are a lot of degree qualified Engineers who don't know which way is up, I spent the last 10 or so years of my working life trying to help them work out how to make things in the real world.

There are a lot of Engineers (by job title) who don't have a degree, I understand this, I was one of them (so to speak), my edikashun also stopped at HNC level.

Sparked some conversation though, even though as I said, my tongue was and is, slightly in my cheek!

Keep smiling, at the end of the day its a hobby, and therefore, almost by definition, is a means of passing time. The World won't stop turning if you want to call yourself an Engineer, a Pastry Chef or a domestic implement hygienist as long as you are enjoying yourself and not harming others.

eat more cake, drink more beer (but not in the workshop)

cheers

Bill

I am not a prolific model builder, I make more tooling than models. I feel most comfortable by describing what I do as "hobby engineering". I am therefore a "HE" rather than a "SHE" ( superior hobby engineer ) - I could never aspire to those dizzy heights!

Rik

Rod

I stand corrected about Marc Brunel. According to Wikipedia his son attended Caen University but the article then confuses matters by saying college at Caen.

I believe Robert Stephenson's short university education at Edinburgh was part designed by his father.

I agree, a sterile argument but interesting.

JA

Second mug of coffee this morning so I've enough caffeine in my system to pitch in....

It appears that I am the "Modeller" in question - as there apparently aren't too many others of us around (according to some here). I would also be very happy answer to the title "Model Engineer", although in my case it might not be well deserved (Model Engineering Apprentice?).

I don't really care what you call ME or MEW - although I don't see any point in changing the titles either. 'Model Engineer' has served pretty well for a hundred years or so and seems perfectly OK to me. In fact I get fed up with things getting changed just for the - what is the right word here? - well - just because we can perhaps... Never mind the history, culture or anything else.

What I do care about is the content of these two magazines and generally I manage to find something of interest to me in most issues. I understand that there are others who do not share my particular passions (I don't understand why this might be so - but I do accept the possibility) and the Editor has to cater for them too.

Anyway - I'm a 'Modeller' and (would-be) 'Model Engineer'

My current modelling "Hero" is a German guy by the name of Jurgen Eichardt. He is a 'Marine' modeller and although I'm not - I've spent some time looking at his website (via Google Translate). Having looked at his US Minesweeper - I've decided I'm still very much the Student and not the Master.... Inspiring and a bit depressing at the same time!

If there are any other "Modellers" here (one or two perhaps?) - then they might find this of interest

**LINK**

I've also just purchased his two "milling" books and just from the diagrams, I'm going to learn something - I will also have a lot of laughs translating the technical German I suspect.

Regards,

IanT

Hi ."Modellers" .Have you seen the Gerald A .Wingrove books 1&2 on car modelling? . Something that I have been trying to do for years ,and as yet nowhere like. Many times have thought of chopping wood as a pastime. But struggle on .

P.S called "THE COMPLETE CAR MODELLER" books 1&2

Back to the workshop to get out of the rain .Best wises all, Maurice.

Chartered Engineer, or C.Eng goes after the name rather than replacing Mr. so it is an award or qualification rather than a title.

In many other European countries Engineer ( or ingénieur) is a title replacing Mr. UK Chartered Engineers can apply for the title of European Engineer (Eur Ing) but very few bother unless working in mainland Europe.

Eur Ing Russell Eberhardt C. Eng.

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 25/08/2014 11:38:15

The Engineering Council seem to think Chartered Engineer is a title.

Mike

Yes, the Engineering Council refer to it as a title but the usual definition is; "a word that is used before someone's name, stating their social rank, qualifications, position in an organization, sex, etc.:". It doesn't replace Mr. as does Doctor or Professor. I think that the European model does confer a bit more status.

Russell.

It would be nice if a Chartered Engineer were given the same recognition as the Clergy,Medicine,Academia and the nobility, but despite British engineers creating the industrial revolution for the world few could name the men responsible. I would like to see an engineering hall of fame with the fathers of the industrial revolution and the long line of great engineers right up to the present day represented. When I was at school the teachers threat to people who didn't work was that they would finish up in the local car factory (probably meaning on the line). If they understood how much engineering went into the design and manufacture of a car they should have been saying if you work hard you could be an engineer at the car factory. Oh well we will have plenty of media studies, tourism, and psychology graduates to keep the country going.

Mike

Engineering is a very wide term, it fact it was once best described to me that Civil Engineers build targets, mechanical engineers build weapons

People are an even wider diverse subject and there is no way you will get them ever to match up and it would be a poor day if it even happened.

What is needed is for the Luddite approach to a subject to be dropped and even if the person is not interested then acceptance needs to be shown instead of blocking this branch out.

One never knows what the future holds and where you may or are forced to go.

However I do find it ironic that the most posted to subjects on this board are never about models, engineering etc but whinge complains by those that show the least work or capabilities.

John S who is now going into the workshop on a bank holiday to repair the dogs collar with a 1" Whitworth bolt

[EDIT]

If I ever became editor of MEW or ME ad that would never happen as no way in hell would I even apply, BUT the first thing I would do is shut this forum down to stop all the whinging.

Ask yourself this? Why doesn't other similar mags have a forum ?

Answer is they don't have wide shoulder to take all the back biting , whiging and crap fit for purpose posts we get on here so give a thought to Neil and Diane for the job they do which according you you lot they don't deserve.

And that was Stevensons Rocket.

Edited By John Stevenson on 25/08/2014 17:24:15

John

I think you had better go and have a sandwich and a lie down. From the look of your post it appears you are running out of energy !

I will agree with you though that there is an amazing amount of energy being expended here on something which has little relevance to Model Engineering as represented by the mags.

I would hazard a guess that of the many posters to this forum only a minority are professional engineers . The hobby is surely mostly about MAKING ( or fixing) "stuff" in our workshops. We don't need any professional qualifications to do that and, if we choose to exhibit our efforts to others, we should be judged by our work and not by our qualifications. ( If not we only need to please ourselves)

OK I AM an engineer - but not a mechanical engineer. I am, in fact, a retired engineer . That has no relevance to my hobby other than a certain outlook on life, some transferable knowledge, and not as much spare time as I thought there would be!

Model Engineer and Model Engineers Workshop are well known publications, everyone knows what they are and buys them - either regularly or as the content appeals them. I'm happy to be called a Model Engineer, a model maker, a handyman, a retired old git or anything else - none of it diminishes me. The only thing I'm NOT prepared to be called though is late for my supper! ( Something taught me by my late Father - in - Law!)

Norman

Ha John

Your posting has cunningly changed and got bigger - it seems that you are feeling better!

N

Edited By NJH on 25/08/2014 18:33:28

Although I am building a 1" Minnie my trade is Maintenance Electrician and my job is Control Engineer. Although my job title is Control Engineer it is a trouble shooting role and yet another abuse of the term engineer as I see it. Awarding ourselves grand titles seems to be a British pastime, technician is another term often abused and where did all the clerks go? They all seem to be office managers now. I tell people my hobby is Model Engineering but does that make me a model engineer? Many of the finest practitioners of model engineering have no formal training or qualifications in engineering yet their work can eclipse that of practicing engineers.

Mike - A sparky with a passion for practical machining and fitting.

Norman,

Because I added my edit after the original edited by etc notice it adopted the small font, I have since been back and changed it but it in no way changes the way I feel about the whingers and whiners as opposed to the show and tell or more importantly the just get on with it brigade.

PS the dog didn't appreciate the 1" whit bolt, had to swap it to 24mm.

Dammit, it's an Old English Sheepdog, not an Old Metric Sheepdog

As usual JS hits the nail on the head.

Can I add my ha'pennorth to this thread

1) As a chartered injuneer (Thick Sandwich course, Electronic), but not a very good one I don't give a b----r what they call me but would observe that the confusion over what an injuneer is has probably helped make British fully qualified professional engineers among the worst paid in the world. Not a bone of contention to me personally as I spotted that technical sales guys were well paid , had an expense a/c , and a very nice free company vehicle every year and in my day that meant free,even down to the petrol for foreign holidays. Even so its a handicap to the country.

2) I do slightly mind being called a modeller . While i like and admire the type of models built by MEW readers I don't entirely like the mindset that goes with many of the builders. I build and restore tools and prefer engineering that makes stuff for the real world especially if it saves me a bob or two (things like heat pumps, wind turbines, cheap trailers (free materials for the transport of etc etc) so I prefer the term Home Workshop but again I don't really give a b----r about it.

I also like the other sort of models, but at 71 can't get my hands on many these days. 'Course if injurers were paid proper I'd have saved a million or two to use as bait.