Electric Smart Meters

I know there are folk with electric vehicles that use one of the tariffs that periodically actually pays the user for using surplus electricty (sporadic and you have to be an enthusiast to keep track) or a dirt cheap tariff between midnight and 3am. They are winners until gov decides to tax car electricity in some way.

What i fail to understand is the apparent committment for everyone to have a smart meter when rural Britain has a lousy mobile phone coverage and I doubt that the DCC network is going to fill that gap anytime soon.

What happens with smart meters in basements and hidden in deep cupboards in the bowels of older dense brickwork buildings?

pgk

I read some time ago that smart meters cost around £200 each, so a total of at least £400 per dual fuel household. The cost of which is of course passed on to customers in the form of increased bills. I personally think anyone that actually wants them should pay for the cost up front if they’re that confident it’s going to save them money.

People save money, not smart meters. Smart meters allow suppliers to make more money by higher charges when their costs are higher (they already allow for this when setting unit prices). That should eventually lead to cheaper cost of electricity generation, but only with a change in people's use of that resource (until some new white goods can be turned off remotely at peak usage periods - beyond the smart meter).

For example, freezers could be all switched off for a couple of hours at a time, with no real saving of power to the householder (it will have to work harder/longer when the power is restored). My wife will not change her habit of cooking during peak power periods - not in a month of Sundays. The only way I can ameliorate that trait is to instal a battery to power the cooker in those periods (yes, I have the battery capacity - 15kWh - but not yet the means to deliver the heavy power supply at the right time).

Very interesting replies here ,thanks. I am holding out not having the smart meter fitted but looks likely that I will be put on the higher tariff if I don't conform, in my opinion energy is good value for money so if I pay a bit more I will cut down on a over priced cup of coffee in town and that will pay for the differences.

Bob

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**LINK**

Very interesting link from Anthony code of practice the right to refuse 2013.

Edited By BOB BLACKSHAW on 14/10/2020 11:25:22

Bob

It may be interesting, but it seems to me to be scaremongering and contains inaccuracies.

I think this site gives a more accurate and factual view:

**LINK**

The suppliers are obliged by the government ( via Ofgem, the regulator) as part of their licence conditions to ‘take all reasonable steps’ to fit smart meters to all customers by the end of 2020.

You are not compelled to have one installed.

See this from the Ofgem website:

**LINK**

Some of the correspondence from suppliers suggests you must have one, but that is not the case. On the other hand, they are permitted to oblige you to have one to get the best tariff. I have had an email from my supplier, Eon which says I should phone them if I don’t want one. I won’t be doing that.

Stuart

I'll offer up my experiences with various energy suppliers and sm's

Prior to moving house 3 yrs ago, we were staunch BG customers( well I did work for them for over 30 yrs..) had smart meters fitted and had no issues...,

To 2017, moved house to a brand new estate, all properties were supplied by E-On and had smart meters fitted.

We stayed with E-On until we were acosted approached by Scottish Power in the Metro Centre one day.....They assured us lower bills...Ok, sign me up....So we left E-On for SP.....

Some time later, SP asked if we wanted a smart meter for each utility, told them they were already installed 'Oh, we cant read them' came the reply..

After being with SP for the year, conscious of the need to look for cheap deals, we returned to E-On as provider.

Sad thing is, although their meters are installed here, we still have to return readings to them on a quarterley basis..

So somewhere along the way, the system has fallen over....not working as it should..E-On's customer database isnt that clever to recognise a returning customer with smart meters already at the address.....

I have been reading through this post since our Smart Meter went off-line on the same day as this thread was started.

I have to admit I did consider some of the posts were a little sceptical verging on paranoia. That was until the meter decided to come back on-line late last night, but Gas only.

The total consumption for yesterday was £1.45, this is for 35.42 kWh used. This gives a unit cost of 4.093p per kWh.

The Tariff shown on the device is 3.36p per kWh, so as a calculator the multiplication is off.

My Tariff for Gas is 3.207p per kWh. This morning first thing and using the same maths we have 14.45p per kWh, currently we are at 10.61p. If it is malfunctioning then how long has it been like this, and how can one be sure of its accuracy in the actual consumption used.

Obviously as a meter these things are useless, and I have to admit the scepticism is well founded. Small wonder I have a preference for all things mechanical.

Regards

Gray,

Edited By Graham Meek on 15/10/2020 12:08:26

Does anyone use a MIG welder and have a Smart Meter. We have a 3 phase supply - forced to have it because we have a 950watt underfloor heater in the kitchen. (EDF France). I have no need for 3 phase, but that's what was installed. The supply is 3 phase plus neutral and 12Kw 60 amp (20 amp per phase).

Apparently the Smart Meter trips at exactly 20 amp on any of the phases. I am concerned that my MIG welder (Smartmig 142) rated at Imax 13.5amp will still work once I go Smartmeter ie: can the welder have very short bursts of more than its rated Imax of 13.5.

To change from 3 phase to single phase 12Kw at this point is very expensive and in the region of £/€ 750

What is the experience / thinking on this one.

Planning to move soon, I want to leave the decision to the next householder.

But the pestering by my supplier feels like they are verging on harassment and the approaches used are so misleading .

Neil

We have had smart meters for electricity and gas for a couple of years now. I was not impressed by the kid who fitted them, just the minimum of training to be certified, but not any sort of proper fitter. The silly gadget they give you to monitor the consumption is sitting unused in a drawer. The only possible advantage could be that the meters we had were very old and that we don't have the meter reader needing to be let into the garage periodically.

The last two places I worked at had 3 phase smart meters for the electricity. They had an antena which was outside the factory so the signal wasn't blocked. The gas meters were old style but little larger than a household meter with 2 inch connectors.

David

I think my smart meter may have developed a sense of humour or it’s not very smart.

Mike

Hi all, in my last job before retirement there was a very large & old fangled electricity meter bolted to the wall behind my machine, on the adjacent exterior wall was a small bracket with an aerial just a few inches high, I enquired what it was for & was told it was so that the meter could be read from outside the building, a few days later a man turned up wearing the electricity company's uniform & proceeded to read the meter, upon asked why he was not using the remote facility he said "I would if the expletive thing worked!" Boom Boom as Basil Brush would have said.

BobH

I do not have a smartmeter - I think I change suppliers too often to get one. I have always said yes when asked - thought it would save a pimply-faced youth from reading my meter. I do have night tariff which is switched by the Droitwich LF transmitter and works.
The facts suggested here seem to be....

Smartmeters are unique to each supplier
Currently, their only function is to give continuous usage data
People are worried they might be used for something sinister like switching their supply off
Mostly they do not work
They use the mobile phone network to transfer data

Mmm! Seems a bit of a mess?

Tongue in cheek comment - since I do not have one through no fault of my own and we are all paying, can I claim compensation? At the very least you folks should be grateful for my gift to you.

I just had an email, in a rather authoritarian tone, from my supplier requesting an appointment be made to fit smart meters. I promptly replied with my refusal and reasons for that decision, and they instantly came back and said that's fine. The simple answer is, you don't have to have them, not in the UK anyway!

The decision to go down this route, with unattainable deadlines was made by 'not so smart' politicians. If anyone can give me a sound reason for the consumer having one, I'd be pleased to hear it.

They were fitted to every household a couple of years back in Spain (in an amazing short time span), by order of the government and I have no idea what benefit I get from it. It has no effect on the extortionate standing charge and tax element to the bill! It only benefits the company supplying the electricity by reading meters remotely.

Every property is already fitted with a smart meter alternative, it's called a switch!

We had them fitted last week, the chap that did them seemed to do a good job, he replaced all the wiring from the mains in to my consumer unit including a new mains isolator and moved the gas meter further away from the electric meter etc, it took him over 5 hours and he was most apologetic for the time taken and thanked us for patience, like yourself I also don't use the silly monitor gadget, the plus side for me is I don't have to clear out all the stuff under the stairs every month and crawl in with a torch to read the meters.

I must be getting old! Time was when I liked to play with each new gadget that came out; CD players, DVD recorders, Digital cameras....

Now I've gone back to vinyl records and flatly refuse to contemplate a smart meter. I see them as being of great advantage to the supplier in making it easy for THEM to monitor usage and charge, pretty irrelevant to the consumer.

Now, where did I leave the photo chemicals?

Stuart

I'd agree with politicians being 'not so smart', and not realising suppliers would roll-out incompatible smart meters is an example! Never good at detail, the politicians assumed meters were meters, and that one would be good for all. It was of course a glorious opportunity for Utility Companies to extract more money from governments!

We happen to have lived in a world where energy was available on demand, and customers could consume it as he liked. This happy state of affairs is coming to an end. Oil, gas and coal are within 60 years of failing and the cost of energy from those sources is going to rise sharply over the next 15 years or so. Fossil fuels are being replaced by Green Energy, which are cheap and sustainable, but not necessarily available on demand. This means the cost of energy will vary with demand, and if demand exceeds supply, the whole system might fail.

At the moment, individuals with cash are free to consume energy whenever they want, but this can't be supported in future. Smart Meters are one way of damping out supply and demand problems. They make it possible for:

• Consumers to be charged at the going rate minute by minute. Thus, Mrs NDIY can cook whenever she wants, but the meter will tell her (or Mr NDIY), that the power is being charged at peak rate. Conversely, at other times power will be dirt cheap, and the meter will show that. It's only partly about saving by identify greedy devices, smart meters encourage people to use power when it's plentiful, and discourage them when it's short. We might choose to eat when power is cheap, not at fixed times.
• Power can be switched on or off house by house, rather than area by area. Also possible in future for devices within a home to be prioritised so that heating and cooking work, but not inessentials like vacuum cleaners and hobby workshops. Grid overloads are managed crudely at the moment, as demonstrated recently in Texas, but Smart Meters add finesse. An area could be disconnected apart from hospitals and old-age pensioners, or made even more fine-grained.
• Selfish behaviour makes shortages much more painful. For example, the Texas crisis was made much worse by people turning everything on when power was available to grab what they could before it failed again, which it did because the community was drawing more power than normal. Smart meters have the potential to limit wild swings in demand during shortages. 'Disconnect all homes consuming more than 20A'

Always tension between personal freedom and the needs of the community, but in this case it appears Smart Meters are part of the answer to a new problem. When, where, and how electricity is produced is changing fundamentally, and we have to adapt. I like the idea that my car could be set to recharge slowly only when power is cheap, but could choose to charge it fast at any time by paying more money, but I would have to know how much it cost before pressing the override button. Smart meters can do that. In practice, I think millions of people managing their consumption according to cost will match supply and demand effectively, so that those who need power during shortages still get it without smart meters actually having to disconnect anybody. Time will tell.

Dave