Model Engineer - Citizen Scientist

I'll fight anyone who says I'm not an engineer.

Martin, My last experience of working was in a dual ladder organisation where as an engineering advisor I was often paid more than my manager. It worked well, at least for me, but I don't know how common this structure is/was and whether it now survives in my old oil field service company now that the head count has dropped by 50%.

There are a suprising number of Martin Kytes on LinkedIn. Are you the one in York?

Alas such jobs are few and far between. It's because "the ability to supervise the technical and administrative work of others" is a key competence of a 'real' Engineer. Interesting that management and leadership of others are skills that a paper qualification can't guarantee. The ability to supervise certainly separates the likes of Isambard Kingdom Brunel from blokes in a shed however brilliant with tools they may be.

Dave

I seem to recall that the entire Chinese Politburo is comprised of Engineers.

Also, for some years I worked as an electronics technician, assembling hundreds of large pcbs, each containing about 1000 surface mount components, hand soldered. I am not a qualified Technician, have held an amateur radio licence for 50 years next year, and made much of my own equipment and test gear. Am I a professional? I was paid for it, my boards 'worked'...

I wrote for 30-odd years without being paid for it. Newsletters, free publications, scurrilous circulars, unofficial school magazines and was rejected by Punch, Private Eye, Eyre Methuen, etc. I've been everywhere, Man... Wapping, Fleet Street, Bournemouth, Leeds, Soho, behind the bike sheds...

Geoff

No Colin, Cambridgeshire.

Martin

It's inevitable that the accomplishments of a one person are limited by time, space and number of hands, eyes etc.

To make the most of their talents, they need to be used as part of a team. Unfortunately it is not always appreciated that the best person to lead the team is rarely the one with the greatest skill at the task in hand, rather it is the one best able to take an overall perspective on a project, manage and handle interruptions and pressures that would disrupt the work of the team, solve and resolve conflicts and problems, create the environment where each team member can achieve their best and inspire loyalty and enthusiasm for the task in hand. It helps greatly for them to understand and have experience in the work at hand, but it is not essential for them to have 'worked their way up through the ranks'.

Neil

Or you might get the Morris Marina of governments.

when I started as an apprentice, many years ago, there was an man who was a top welder. One of the men said to me " see that chap- he'll never get to be foreman. He's too good at his job. " Stuck with me all these years.

If you are a professional engineer, and still want to get your hands dirty, you'r probably best to start your own business,then you can decide who does what.

Ian S C

You'll probably need to be more specific, such as electronics, test, production or mechanical engineer.

I don't know about elsewhere but there are well paying jobs around Cambridge for engineers, as opposed to managers. By well paying I mean £50k+. Of course you'll need client facing skills and be prepared to work to get the job done rather leave on the dot each evening. But the benefits (pension, death in service, flexible working and others) are good. The same is true for science, particularly bio-science. Basically there are a lot of international companies, and startups, all competing for the same people.

In a riposte to those who decry "engineers" with a degree, in the Cambridge area you'll need at least a 1st or 2:1 from a "recognised" university (read Oxbridge or redbrick) before your CV even gets read. A PhD helps too; even though it might get you banned on this forum.

There are downsides though, Cambridge is a very expensive area to live, and the infrastructure is broken.

Andrew

Anyone else here have the title of European Engineer (Eur. Ing.)? It never did really catch on in the U.K.

Eur. Ing. Russell

Edited By Russell Eberhardt on 04/07/2017 14:51:08

Hi Ing Russel .....

Sadly, you are right, it never took off here in Blighty. Actually, I don't believe that I have ever knowingly come across anyone else with the title.

Perhaps I should apply for it before Brexit is Brexited !!!

cheers Will

This will probably end up sounding conceited to some, but this "problem" of a lack of practical, able, willing politicians has far more to it than meets the eye.

I think the main difference is that governments of previous generations didn't get paid to be an MP, you had to do something else in order to get money.

Whilst this meant that inevitably all MPs were rich, who just wanted the job as a hobby, you could construe this as a good thing because they wanted to be there for reasons other than financial gain, yes, a corrupt steel magnate might look to vote in favour of policies that support his industry, but he actually has to win the argument first.

It means you can't get elected just simply because you want a comfortable salary.

Now you can just sit on your laurels and do nothing if it so inclined you. You don't even have to turn up if you want, and that's why weve got more politicians than ever, who can't seem to get an awful lot done.

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 04/07/2017 16:29:37

Not me. When I first started out chartered status seemed important, although I never bothered to achieve it. Not least because I was pee'd off that the IEE didn't regard a PhD as work experience, whereas the IEEE did. At my many interviews membership of an engineering institution and/or chartered status have never been mentioned, not even in passing. It simply doesn't seem important to startups and high tech companies.

Whether that's a good or bad thing is another matter.

Andrew

Like all things necessity is the mother of invention.

Many things are attributable to home grown science just look at the kitchens and for that matter camp fires of old. Where would we be if someone had not thrown meat on a fire no BBQ's. Lite fires around rocks which melted and gave us Metals. Or granny in the kitchen making jams, or soap. Long long before Universities there was the secret orders of the churches, monks who made wine and mead.

I've known many who walked and study in halls of Uni's and that bit of paper is often as good as the books they have read to attain and pass those exams they are good enough to memorise what they have learned. Then just as much I have learned more of backyard engineers, mechanics and may self taught other persons.

There are those who have done the years in Uni's and have given the world their findings to benefit all man kind sadly they are often sidelined till long after they are gone.

Anyone else here have the title of European Engineer (Eur. Ing.)? It never did really catch on in the U.K.

Eur. Ing. Russell

The UK Passport Office recognises the title Eur Ing and because the European Federation of National Engineering Associations, FEANI, which issues the title is unconnected with the European Union the use of the prefix within the UK will survive the end of the Brexit process.

Just to annoy the Brexiteers, I and a number of others plan to add the prenomial Eur Ing to our passports when they next come up for renewal. (I know, it's petty, but there's not much else you can do.)

Eur. Ing, Whittaker

No wonder it didn't catch on as it's publicity level seems to be abysmal. I've never heard of the term before, nor of FEANI.
Titles are not universal even in one country. In the industry in which I work some manager back a decade or two had never heard of systems engineering so titled it architecture and it is now standard. I have been in a client developer despite actually being microwave engineer and I discovered recently that a quantity surveyor in civil engineering is a programme manager or project manger in other disciplines.

One problem is that the British are no longer proud of people who can actually make things. In the past I have known several Italians with the title "Ingegnere", and they were addressed as such. In Britain, engineers are perceived as grubby little men in overalls. That said, we do still have some great inventors, but we don't seem able to follow up with manufacture. Yesterday I had an MRI scan in a very clever bit of kit invented by Sir Peter Mansfield. Who built the thing? Siemens in Germany.......

Oh ye of little faith:

"At our production facility in Eynsham, Oxfordshire, we design and manufacture the superconducting magnets for all Siemens magnetic resonance imaging (MRI)"

Neil

Yes Neil, but they (Siemens) bought out Oxford Instruments who started the whole business of superconducting magnets for UK inspired MRI scanners. Those of us who were around in the business when it all started, watched on helpless, when as usual, it was all sold to Johnny Foreigner.