Aircraft General Discussion

Britain and the USA had a different philosophy in aircraft manufacture. The USA built the aircraft, and told the airlines that was what was needed, starting with such as the DC-2/ DC-3, and still continues today. UK builders went out and asked an airline what they would like, or the airline went to the manufacturer, an aircraft of a fairly narrow specification was produced, with little appeal to other airlines. The exception to that rule that I can think of just now would be the Vickers Viscount as far as British aircraft in NZ. Main UK problem, lack of bulk production, where UK built hundreds(sometimes much less), the USA built thousands.

Only my opinion.

Ian S C

The impression I got from the seaplane era was they were a great idea for getting around the British Empire, but the big money mass market was in the USA

It's still possible they could make a comeback in the future, lovely useful and practical go anywhere machines

Before the War the USA had some magnificent flying boats. The Boeing Clippers that were, or were going to be, used on trans-Atlantic crossings were made by Sikorsky. The War changed everything and one wonders why the Princess flying boats were every built. Perhaps it had something to do with the Brabazon Committee.

JA

Flying boats were great for routes with long distances and no airports, such as the Empire route before the war, and the Pacific route for the Americans. (The Empire route was from the UK to NZ via the middle east.)

The war made the difference...aircraft got bigger and with longer range, airports were built in all sorts of places that otherwise might not have got them, and so land based aircraft took over. Flying boats were still used to get to NZ until quite late in the fifties, maybe even into the early sixties. But flying boats are expensive to run...corrosion is a problem and also the hull shape is not ideal for flight so the fuel economy is not as good. Although it must be reassuring to know that given a calm enough sea you could put down on the ocean half way across.

It also didn't help that the allies agreed during the war that the Americans would do the transport aircraft so the Brits could get on with the urgently needed fighters and bombers. It might have made sense during the war, but left the Brits on the back foot afterwards.

Even so, if they had managed to avoid the fatigue problem with the Comets, they might have managed to gain a bit more market share.

John

John

That strikes me as a very good analysis of the situation - thank you.

Norman

I'm surprised that we don't see more ekranoplans, although I can see they are best suited to areas like the Black Sea.

Neil

Neil

Wrong thread !! ( Aircraft General Discussion )

Norman

The flying boats did great service with TEAL, an Aunt of mine was a regular flyer in the 40s/50s. One thing they didn't tell the passengers, with adverse winds the aircraft could arrive at Sydney with about 20 minutes of fuel, and I think there was more than once that they had to be towed to the buoy, not enough fuel to taxi in, things improved with the Solents, then they went to DC-6.

Ian S C

Quacks like a duck!

Neil

Ekranoplanes: ground effect monsters doing 300 mph at about 5 metres above the water!

Wouldn't want to be a fisherman anywhere in the area.

Edited By V8Eng on 18/08/2015 20:04:50

While awaiting a flight out of Heathrow in mid-year 1979, I took this sequence of IMO the most beautiful aircraft ever - i.e. Concorde during a push-back.

I've mentioned it before, but I was surprised to see that the livery was British Airways on the right side, and then Singapore Airlines on the left.

The picture quality is rather low as a result of -

Typical midsummer UK weather

Photographing through the window

Age of (satin finish) postcard prints.

Rephotographing 35 year old prints

Sam S

The dual livery model was British optimism failing to understand the US 'not made here' business model!! It's a characteristic which remains with us still. Just occasionally (ie Viscount, BAC 111) it can be nullified but not often.

Re Concord, it was still in service while I was at BA and the morning departures used to set off all the car alarms in the Cranebank multi-storey park. We did a couple of look-see visits and the most noticeable thing was the flight deck size by comparison with 'my' 747s and, particularly, Tristars. Concord pilot seating was akin to an MG TC for 'cosiness!! although the FE had a lengthy travelling area. I have a photograph somewhere of the final scheduled departure from HR taken from my, then, home in Addlestone.

rgds

Bill

Hope you don't mind Sam, but I thought I'd experiment with sprinkling some fairy dust on your pushback pic:

Just think of the computers on Concord, today the average smart phone could out do the stuff that ran the aircraft nav systems etc. Nice aeroplane, a nice dream. We used to occasionally see it when it came into Christchurch NZ.

Ian S C

Over thirty years ago as a member of the Duxford Aviation Society we used go on coach trips to various aviation interests and one year a visit to BA's maintenance unit at Heathrow came up, we boarded the coach at Duxford for an early start as the organiser, who was a BA pilot and a part time coach driver for his father's business, had a surprise for us and we couldn't be late.

We arrived at Heathrow to find ourselves parked outside Air Canada's cargo warehouse, the organiser went in to the building and a few minutes later came out with strict orders to follow him, stick together and touch nothing, we walked through the building to find ourselves live side stood on the grass by the runway, we were told to look left to see concorde turn onto the runway and open the throttles by the time she reached us she had rotated and was about to lift off, in my loft I have a picture of that moment and one day I will find if. We spent the rest of the day looking around in and over what was in the maintenance hangers of BA.

> BA pilot and a part time coach driver

Shades of Bruce Dickinson

Neilk

Just visited AEROSCOPIA at Toulouse France. Its the latest aircraft museum exhibiting first flight up to Airbus A380 etc. 2 Concordes to look at (one to walk through). Super Guppy, videos etc. Combine the visit with a trip round the A380 final assembly hall (Takes 14 days to bolt all the major assemblies together). There is also an adjacent site of older aircraft awaiting restoration - too many types to list.

That is certainly an improvement Neil. What’s your secret?

I gave Photoshop (CS3) a go at `Unsharp Mask’ and tweaked up the contrast , but was disappointed to see that the batch of pictures were already covered in fairy dust, i.e. pinpoint specular reflections from the satin texture of the prints. Clearly, I hadn’t set the lighting (LED’s) at a flat enough angle. Or - maybe the lights need to be covered with something to stop their glare?

At the risk of getting too far OT, I clearly need some advice about CS3 editing.

Re Concorde, a chap I knew (he became my stepfather) claimed to have been part of a seven-man team of electrical engineers. Their task was to design the Concorde engine monitoring system. He explained that during that time, they produced about 4000 circuit diagrams.

Did I hear correctly wrt delta-winged aircraft that they don’t stall but `mush’ out?

I didn’t notice the visor was up in this image, taken during loading.

Thanks to all for the added interest.

Regards,

Sam

More fairy dust.

As a BAC Weybridge apprentice, I helped make some bits for Concord(e) - we fought bitterly not to have the "e" added. Forward cockpit jigs, main fuselage test section for Farnborough, drew one of the ribs for the fin, but my best claim to fame was making a few plastic covered balsa wood toilet seats. One of the most important sets on board!!
BobH

Hi Sam - nice to hear from you again!

You say " Or - maybe the lights need to be covered with something to stop their glare ?" - Yes diffusion is the secret for this type of photography. It does not need to be anything fancy - at a pinch you could shine the light through a white handkerchief or a piece of tissue paper - just be careful that the cover is not too close to the light - and catches fire!

Norman

PS I recall that you are in Melbourne - I have the Melbourne contingent of the family ( my youngest son) over with us at the moment - really great to see him but hard to keep him out of my workshop!