Help choosing a Chinese lathe please

Edited By martin perman on 02/09/2019 20:39:58

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The two lathes are similar, both based on the same design, and possibly even from the same factory. The Chester version has a Brushless motor, considered a "good thing", and - although power specifications can be misleading - on the face of it the motor is more powerful. The Chester is also 5kg heavier, a hint it's a bit stiffer.

More than 10 years since I compared mini-lathes but back then I got the impression MachineMart were a little expensive compared with the competition, but - who knows - their lathes may be assembled to a slightly higher standard. This is why the forum are nervous about buying direct from China: there are some duds about, and sorting it out might be difficult. Buying from a British importer protects you against that because they'll replace a wrong-un or refund your money.

Watch out comparing prices, for example I think Chester's price excludes VAT and Delivery, MachineMart exclude delivery, while Warco prices always include VAT and delivery. Also worth checking the accessories included: looks like Chester are a little more generous. Also, sometimes discounts are to be had, or the Imperial version is cheaper than the Metric, or the machine you choose is out-of-stock.

When it arrives you may find the machine is a little rough. If it goes wrong, ArcEuro probably have the best reputation for service, and I've had good service from Warco. MachineMart carry spares and I don't recall lots of complaints about their nachines. Axminster cost more but you get a 2 year warranty. I don't think any of the UK suppliers have an 'avoid' reputation, or that any of their offerings have a killer advantage.

In practice the machines are so similar it probably won't matter which you buy.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 02/09/2019 21:06:16

Thank you everyone I have added the SIEG c3 to my list now as well

S.O.D;

I think you summed it all quite succinctly in your last sentence.

ATB,

Daniel

If you expect to do milling in the lathe, I've found a vertical slide to be effective, and think it unlikely any of the bolt-on column milling heads offer sufficient rigidity.

Neil

The machine mart lathe looks expensive in comparison to other brands.

I bought a mini lathe about 18 months ago and spent a long time comparing specs etc.

In the end I bought a CJ18a lathe from Amadeal. It doesn't have the brushless motor of some of the Chester or Warco ones but has a 100mm chuck as standard. It was delivered very quickly. May be worth considering.

Stuart

Thank you Stuart I will take a look at that one as well

My Mini Lathe is a CL300M.

In all honesty they have hardly changed in 20 years while the 'new generation' with brushless motors are more reliable and have other improvements, like lever locking tailstocks.

Personally I wouldn't buy a brushed motor version now the brushless ones have been proven to be more reliable.

I should have posted a link before to my article CHOOSING A MINI LATHE

"On this forum, we get an awful lot of beginners asking for advice on buying a Mini Lathe. This is because they offer one of the most inexpensive routes into hobby engineering, having a good capacity and capabilities in a smaller 'benchtop' machine.

"The bewildering choice of machines makes it hard for a beginner, with no previous experience, to choose a suitable machine. The following is an extract from my book Mini Lathes that tries to offer some advice on what to look for when choosing one of these machines."

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 03/09/2019 10:29:27

I would second that. Choosing a supplier known for good after sales service is probably the most important choice for a beginner to make.

Russell

**LINK**

I have been looking at this one but they do a basic package

**LINK**

what would you advise and has anyone bought from these they seem to look good for parts as well

thank you

A bit late joining this thread but there may be something of use on this page from my website - Journeyman's Workshop Start Model Engineering - Lathes

John

I sourced my CML from Amadeal and always had good service from Amadeal, ARC and Warco.

I think if i was in the market for a mini lathe i would probably buy from ArcEuro as they have a very good reputation on this forum, Ketan from ArcEuro is often on the forum & is very helpfull not only to his customers but on other subjects as well. They also appear to nearly always have lathes in stock & hold spare parts in stock + there Sieg lathe uses the desired brushless motor & they come with up to 400mm between centres.

Neil Mc,

It all comes down to budget and perceived value for money.

Mechanically, most of the mini-lathe family will be similar, with small differences in assembly QC.

Amadeal have a 100mm flange as standard for lathe chuck, although ARC, and engineers at SIEG do not agree with the idea, based on load over length of headstock casting support, combined with load on electronics. This is a matter of opinion which can and has been debated over time. This is down to customer choice. Wherever 80mm chucks are fitted, 100mm chucks and backplates are available, only because some customers want them, but not something which we recommend.

The cheapest should be brushed motor versions of mini-lathe. At the cheapest level, there will be no overload protection on board. So, probability of the control board/ motor getting damaged increase under an overload situation (similar to C2)... especially for a beginner. The higher level brushed motor versions (C3) will have overload protection on the control board. In all brushed versions, the fai lsafe is normally the high/low plastic gears. Some people prefer to change them to metal gears, increasing the probability of damaging the control board/motor under an overload event.

Then come the brushless motor family which are now a days sold in two ways...:

A.: gear drive - with high low gears and a 'small' brushless motor - similar to the one in your opening link and which is probably the same as the Warco brushless offering... sold as Superior or Super respectively. The power stated is probably/possible 'input power', 'open to question' as the motor appears to be too small in physical size to be output wattage, because if it was output, gears would quickly break!!. These are not made or supplied by SIEG. See following threads for further understanding:

Warco Super mini lathe (probably same as Chesters Superior lathe) See the size of the motor. It seems to look smaller than what a 500W brushless motor of this type should look like. Also read this brushless motor thread.

B: Belt Drive - SIEG models SC2 and SC3. These are 500W output. The physical size of this brushless motor is 130mm (overall length) or 100mm motor length x 80mm x 80mm. See picture here . There is no hi/low gear to break in these models. The torque control comes from programing on the control board, rather than mechanical gear drive. Till date, competitors of SIEG are unable to achive this with their brushless motor/control board setup.

Strictly speaking, based on the above, the SC2 and SC3 should be the most expensive.

Competitor marketing is selective in use of words 'Super'... 'Superior'... other; and in certain ebay cases, the machines are made to 'look bigger'... often plugged by certain members on here, but on close examination, it is just a standard mini-lathe made to look bigger with addition of sheet metal, and looking at the electrical content soon proves that one is dealing with a product which could be considered to be even cheaper than a low specked mini-lathe.

Most manufacturers are guilty of failing to specify what they mean by power, be it for input or output. Certain distributors also exaggerate the power stated, but can still justify this as some form of 'input' power'. SIEG always states output power which is lower than input power. However, we know that some companies who buy from SIEG want them to state their own version of the meaning of power, as it is their own company brand interpretation of power.

Unfortunately, presentation of such facts does come across as a 'sour grapes' issue, leaving the potential buyer to make up his or her own decision, which can still prove to be good, bad or ugly.

Having said all of the above, based only on price, the Amadeal second package does appear to be good value for money, for what it is.

Ketan at ARC.

Hi Ketan at arc

thank you for your honest post do you think that arc could do a similar offer for me at all please as with your being on the forum I would prefer that I bought from yourselves

thank you

Hi Neil,

I understand.

The SC2 and SC3 are both belt drive, with brushless motor. They are far more expensive for us to buy than the brushed gear drive being offered by Amadeal.

As a result, the price we state are currently the best we can offer. For SIEG machines, they are probably the cheapest in the world... at present.

If you want, you could consider to buy Starter Set 1 or Starter Set 2, along with the machine, which could save you some money.

Please be aware that prices are subject to change without notice. Currently, with the volatility on foreign exchange, some prices are increasing. At the same time, due to certain competition, prices for some consumables are falling, as suggested in our September Newsletter sent out earlier today to subscribers to our newsletter. However, price reductions is not something we are seeing at present on machines. Please accept our apologies. If the situation changes, one way or the other, this will be reflected on our website.

Ketan at ARC.

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I have the SC3 and also a micro milling machine from ArcEuro.

Had an issue (self inflicted) when setting up the mill. Rang Arc late on a Friday. Sorry you need to speak to ……… Can you ring back at about 9:30 tomorrow? (Saturday) Rang back then ………. answered to phone, told me what to do, did not call me an idiot (although on reflection I had been one)

I know that if I ring back about the mill or the lathe I will get the answer - either there and then or when the right guy is there, rather than someone trying to guess to help me out.

That's worth hundreds to me - and the prices were the best as well!

Thanks Ketan, you might be able to guess who ………. is - but every dealing I have had with Arc Euro has been equally successful for me.

Nick

At risk of wading into this and scraping knuckles with the sneering group, i would just point out that the chinese mini-lathe is getting a touch expensive now for what it is. I did use one (conquest) for 10 years but have changed to the WM180 which is a little more expensive but MUCH better designed and comes equipped (unlike mini-lathe) with two good chucks, two steadies and excellent thick face-plate. It is, in short, a vastly better lathe for the same basic spec of 3 1/2 inch x 12 inches between centres, and not much more dosh when you tot up the chucks and steadies, which you will need sooner rather than later.

.........The WM180 is much better made and when you add the price of the missing chucks to mini-lathe the prices are amazingly close!

Edited By Bob Stevenson on 03/09/2019 18:14:54