Single to 3 phase invertor and smart meters

So far, and despite Gray's comments, I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that Smart meters will give me something that I am not doing anyway. Reading the meters? Do it already, on the 6th of every quarter. Switch on the washing machine during the cheap rate period? Being on Economy 7, we do it anyway? Remote display? Walk out the back door into the porch, turn right into the garage, and the meter (E7 meter) is immediately on my right at head height. Switch appliances off if the cost goes up too far? Give over, if the appliance is switched on, that's because we need to use it.

Sorry Gray, I do not for one moment believe that these devices are being installed to assist the consumer, rather it's a back door way of our equipment eventually being remotely controlled. And why? Because no-one in Government has the guts to stand up and say we need these extra power stations, and we are going to build them! Instead, they witter on about asking the Chinese/French/ Russians/everyone else to come and build Nuclear for us, and all the while pandering to the green lobby by allowing various assorted businesses to build wind turbines with their variable output.

Apologies for the rant.

Peter G. Shaw

Question on Smart Meters.

Has anyone been given a cost, by the suppliers, on how much they cost to run £'s/annum ?

They are supplied with energy from the consumers side of the meter I presume ?

Hardly - would be a bit of a problem if they had switched it off!

I have a similar meter system to the one Peter Shaw mentions.

The supply company emails me when they want a reading, I read the meters then log in on the company website and put the readings in.

We see no use for a Smart Meter because our house operates on the ‘switch off if not using’ basis anyway.

All that works a treat, pretty cost effective too I would imagine.

Edited By V8Eng on 10/02/2019 10:19:53

Yes, that’s how we operate as well. The only equipment switched on is because it needs to be.

This might be a bit like when we conned into having "economy seven" for free to benefit from energy being produced at night. I few years ago i was looking at changing supplier and they questioned why I was on economy seven as I was not using enough night units to justify the charges THAT HAD CREPT IN. Soon came of that scam, but still wonder how much it had cost me over the years. I had given up night time activities, like baking cakes, night time washing, cutting the privet hedge, getting the wife up early to do the ironing, etc. lol

Who started all this whining anyway....lol

Pete

As I see it, the Smart Meter you see, is separate from the main meter, which is powered by the energy provider.

It ( the SM) must have a power supply from somewhere, is it from the provider or consumer side of the main meter ?

If the latter, 'you' are paying for it.

Or can you physically switch it off ( disconnect , not standby )?

Rather reading the Daily Mail or guessing - this web-site contains a lot of information about what smart meters are for and how they work. It seems to be accurate and balanced.

The requirement to install Smart Meters comes from government. As smart meters don't strongly benefit either consumers or suppliers, I suggest the initiative is more to do with the needs of future energy management than a desire to polish the way we do things today.

Change in the way nations use energy is being forced upon us because:

• the science behind Climate Change is proving more likely to be right than wrong
• demand for energy is rising world-wide
• fossil fuels are starting to run out
• alternatives to fossil fuels aren't as simple or reliable

New challenges are on the horizon and Smart Meters might help. The ability to disconnect and reconnect customers on the fly would be useful in a crisis when demand exceeds supply. More positively, the meters allow households to sell power back to the grid, which would encourage more people to fit Solar Panels, and allow access to electricity stored in large numbers of electric cars as a buffer. The ability to alter the price of energy on the fly could be used to discourage customers from using power during periods of high demand and to encourage them to use it during periods of low demand. Like Economy Seven on Steroids!

One link opens a description of the elaborate computer security measures being taken to protect Smart Meters. They are by far the most sophisticated I have seen described in a public document. It makes the security applied (or not) by businesses to personal data look amateur. It's because of the high level of risk Smart Meters are exposed to. For example, a hacker might succeed in taking over the entire smart meter network. Being able to disconnect an entire country from gas and electricity makes the system an attractive target. And another risk is that the 'hacker' is a well-funded agency of an unfriendly government rather than a spotty schoolboy.

Interesting times ahead I think.

Dave

The thing you see if the in-home display. This connects to the meter proper using, I believe, Zigbee RF. It is probably battery powered, but is unlikely to take much energy as it's basically a low power microprocessor, a Zigbee RF unit, and a display. You could always take the battery out or if it does use mains power just unplug it. According to Ovo Energy...and they indirectly confirm you can switch it off.

How much does it cost to run my IHD?

Your In-Home Display (IHD) is very power efficient. The average amount of power it uses when it’s switched on, including the plug-top power supply, is less than 0.5 watts. Over a year, this adds up to 4.38 kWh or 54p (based on a unit rate of 12.33p/kWh).

I've recently been asked by my electricity supplier to consider having a smart meter fitted, initially i was put off by the guy at the other end of the phone being quite insistent that it would save me money! As we all know, it won't, its the consumer that can do that, with or without a smart meter.

For me it was an easy decision not to, the array of PV panels on the roof decided that. I could, possibly, affect the amount of money I get from "feed in", difficult to tie down exactly but it could cost me so no smart meter.

John

Wow, so many opinions on a smart meter!

This is why this forum is so good.....!

I have to say reading all of your comments I have come to the conclusion to convert the super 7 to 3 phase via an invertor but to call EON and cancel the smart meter!!!.....what was I thinking ?

Best regards to all of you

Del

It seems that fitting smart meters was not initially UK government policy but rather a European Union proposal.

As long ago as 2013 the Germans decided it was of no benefit to consumers.

**LINK**

Thank you John Haine, I will go with that, £0.54 /annum/ consumer

Multiply that by a few million consumers , yep , I could live on that !

I didn't know you could get electricity for 12.33 p/kWh, I'm paying double that, but at least I'm 54p a year better off than John as I don't have a smart meter.

I have the same policy as Peter and Vic, it's only plugged in if I need to use it and nothing on 'standby'.

Berty

Some years ago my father-in-law was in a house with economy 7 or white meter as it was called in Scotland. He used to get up at 5.30am to switch on the washing machine etc to get the advantage of the supposed cheap rate electricity. The bill was not very detailed in those days but we noticed that the economy units and the final bill did not add up so he questioned it. The company were not really prepared to discuss it until he insisted and he received a chart showing the costs of the supposed "economy" units.

The price changed several times during the so called "economy" period and he found he was being charged nearly twice the "day" rate for his early morning clothes washing!

The company refused to explain why the "economy" rates were so expensive other than to say that is how the meters were supplied and they couldn't he changed!

One of the problems with smart metres is that they don't all talk to each other. We had one fitted last year then switched supplier and now have to still go read them and email the reading to our current supplier.

This is an example of when a Smart Meter would be an advantage. To use Economy 7 economically you had to understand its tariff structure, which changed over time, and use electricity strictly within the contract's terms and conditions. Not sticking to the small-print resulted in costly bills, and the system took no prisoners. A Smart Meter would have instantly told father-in-law how much his electricity was costing - no need for him to wait for a reading, mysterious calculations, and a surprising bill months later.

As I get older I crave simplicity in financial and and other matters. Sadly, it's not turning out that way. I'm surrounded by complexity, muddle and turkeys looking forward to Xmas!

Dave

My information on smart meters sensing the difference between inductive and resistive load is taken direct from the pages of Electrical Review, which has been the voice of the Electrical industry for many years, in fact since Michael Faraday was its original editor (him being a bookbinder an all that) I doubt very much that the companies in the business of selling electricity would spend many millions developing a device that enabled their customers to use less of what they are selling, and also, if their only purpose is energy saving, why has the government not made them compulsory for every user? Why does the industry tell lies to convince people to have them fitted? Methinks sir, you protest too much!

Its quite interesting that although the majority of houses don’t have smart meters the UK has continued to reduce energy consumption for well over a decade:

**LINK**

Some more information about smart meters in the UK.

**LINK**

I think it might, but I suspect they're more likely to mess with an older motor based meter than a Smart Meter that samples voltage and current at high speed rather than counting turns resulting from current flowing. (Am I right in thinking spinning disk meters infer power from current over time and don't measure voltage at all, instead assuming all watts are at 240V nominal?)

When I was in short trousers the load put on the network by domestic users was almost entirely resistive. Unlike industry, households caused little error due to inductive, capacitive or complex loads, and there was no need to worry about complications.

VFD's I guess are still relatively uncommon in homes, but a major change is the arrival of large numbers of a close relative - switched mode power supplies. Between lighting and electronics the average home must have them well into double figures. These things are far from being a resistive load, particularly if they are poorly filtered, and I wonder what effect the harmonics and general mush might have on a meter?  My guess is the presence of harmonics would cause a spinning disk meter to read low.

Perhaps the effects average out and it doesn't matter. Does anyone know?

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 10/02/2019 18:57:53