New chinese lathe or old Myford lathe

I doubt it, the Myford 254 wasn't introduced until 13 years after Myford closed Raglan down.

Not necessarily. The Myford was designed and built as a home hobby machine, consequently down to a price. When the ML7 first came out in the late 1940s its price was nearly 25 per cent lower than that of a Drummond/Myford M-type, the previous favourite machine of the model engineering fraternity. You get what you pay for.

If you can luck out and find a Myford that has had little use, you can get a very good machine. But many of them have been worn to the point of needing a bed and saddle regrind and major skilled work resetting and scraping the headstock bearings. They do actually wear, a lot, over the years if used frequently.

It's like buying a used car. If you are going to buy a 1950s to 70s vintage car, you want to be damn sure you know what you are looking and what you are getting into. Ditto lathes. (Likewise, don't expect a new Chinese car to be a Rolls Royce, or even a Toyota.)

I was watching a super 7 long bed on ebay today and the last bid was over 5k au although it did look in immaculate cond - for 5k i could buy a chinese lathe that would eat the super 7 !

There are many more things to factor in with a lathe purchase , will it fit where you want to put it ? Does it need 3ph power ? Can you get the machine to where it will live without killing yourself or disantling it to the last nut and bolt and carrying it in piece by peice ?

Will it do what you want ? If you play with cars or bikes on the side you may need a larger spindle bore , longer bed or more swing over the bed / saddle .

Once you have checked over the specs on a few brands of lathes to see what will meet your needs you can then cull the ones that don't make the grade . After that you should go and look at some examples in your price range - both new and used with no intention to buy as you are just gathering info and sometimes once you look at something in the flesh you may not like it - i have seen some photos touched up or taken at certain angles so not to show bed damage !

My usual advice is simple :

Don't buy brand "A" or "B" just because of a name or some bloke at your local club likes this brand , you need to look at your needs and look for a make that has those specs be it myford , boxford , harison or chinese / taiwanese.

If you know nothing about how to check a machine for wear and its not just the bed the ,leadscrew ,headstock bearings , tailstock barrel , cross and compound slide feed screws all come into play ( excuse the pun !) you are better of buying new provided you can buy a machine that meets your needs .

It really is a bit like hopper said in regards to cars - those that know not how to fix or rebuild usually buy new as they want to get in and drive it not fix it and the tinkerers / enthusiast buy used as the like to play with them .

Ian.

Yes, I think Super 7 prices have gone off the scale, compared with ML7s, and I can't see that they are so superior as to be worth the extra premium.

In fact, from my experience, the Hercus (Aussie South Bend clone) is a far better made machine than teh Myfords and sell for much less money than a Super 7. The UK equivalent would be the Boxford. Certainly worth a look. The inverted V beds on them certainly seem to wear better than the swarf-prone flat bed Myfords for starters. And the overall machine is slightly larger but much more robustly built, in the American tradition. (Think Cadillac Eldorado vs Morris Oxford, or Harley Davidson vs Royal Enfield). Not sure about the Boxford, but the Hercus/South Bend construction is all cast iron, not that cheapo Mazak zinc-aluminium pot metal that much of the Myford is pumped out in. Mazak would never have stood up to the Yanks. They expect stuff to be tough.

Bear in mind that a second hand lathe may come with many attachments which will be VERY expensive for your Chinese lathe. For me, forget the hype of the Myford and go for the Boxford. Also think about what you intend to use the lathe for. If it is for run of the mill stuff, you can tolerate a bit of wear and develop your operator skills. If you need high precision all the time, then you may have to think Hardinge tool room lathes and the like.
BobH

You drink beer with popcorn????

My 2 Baht's worth;

Harrison L5/140

Colchester Student/Bantam

Boxford

S&B 1024

Kerry

All the above have a small footprint, but are a helluva better lathe than a Myford. Chinese - won't/can't comment...

Me? Biased? Nay....

I've had old and new machines. The old ones I spent more time fixing than using. The new ones are a joy.
Any problem (within reason) just pick up the phone for support, or to order spares and tooling.
One trivial problem with an SC3 was sorted by the dealer within 24 hours - gratis.
Old (insert British company of choice) are nice to look at, but like vintage cars often only work 2 weekends in June.
For serious collectors only really.
You can buy several Chinese lathes for the price of a good condition Myford, and you don't have to sell a kidney for the accessories. The money saved can go toward materials instead.

I had an old 1942 vintage war finish "South Bend Heavy 10" for over 45 years. It cost me a fiver from the place I served my time at. It coped with most small things but any bigger stuff or things requiring more accuracy I took into where I was working at the time. Come the time to retire and the need for a bigger/better machine I spent about a year looking at various Colchester, Harison etc. The truth is I never found one in good enough order to part with money. I did find an ex London Transport training school Colchester Student in nice condition but it came with no tooling which had been pilfered between the dealer buying it and getting it to his unit in the Midlands. I agreed to buy the machine at £4250 only to get a phone call from the dealer next day saying he had underpriced it and wanted over £5000. I ended up buying a Taiwanese 14"x40" used lathe nicely tooled with DRO quick change toolpost, steadies etc for £1000. It has the 40mm spindle bore I needed and with a bit of work has proved to be a good machine.

Tread very carefully looking for old ex industry lathes all I found was worn out junk but yes good ones are out there, be prepared to travel

Er, but it was the Yanks who invented it! They called it Zamak and it was widely used in the US. One example being the Atlas Lathe that inspired Myford. By the time Zamac was relicensed for manufacture in the UK, it was known that impure Zinc causes the alloy to rot. Mazak was made with a purer form of British Zinc and the alloy was much more stable than the original Zamac. Of course, once Zinc impurity was understood to be the problem Zamak in the USA was also improved. That didn't stop cheapskates from making the nasty version though.

But it does raise an interesting question: how long should a lathe be expected to last? I think less than 10 years.

I could argue that Myford's original business model was flawed. In a small market, how can you make a living selling lathes that people rarely replace? In a very real way, Myford owners bankrupted the company they venerate. Although many people want one, very few supported the business by buying new.

I look at my Chinese lathe rather differently. In round numbers it cost £2000. If it only lasts 5 years, that's £8 per week - less than I spend on petrol. I don't expect it to last, and I don't need it to. If it breaks, or I decide I don't like it, I shall replace it.

Quite often you see the advice 'Buy expensive buy once. Buy cheap buy twice'. As advice goes that's naive rather than wrong. It assumes incorrectly that not replacing tools is always a 'good thing'. Actually, there are many reasons why expensive initial investments might be bad strategy: ask any accountant or production manager.

A much better reason for buying 'quality' or older tools is because you enjoy them. Buying expensive to 'save money' isn't respectable unless you've done an investment appraisal.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 19/10/2017 10:13:41

As Professor Joad said "it all depends on....." New Chinese lathes are not all that good and neither are Myfords! They are both built down to a price. I would rather have a Chinese lathe than a clapped out Myford. But if you can find a good Myford at the right price then the Myford wins out. If you are patient and know what you are about, then a good Myford can be had. An ML7 is usually a better buy than a Super 7, as far as value for money goes.

I have Myfords not because I think they are wonderful (they are not!), but because the range of accessories is far better than just about any lathe used by amateurs. Although the accessories are getting expensive too!

My friend has a big Chinese lathe, he had a crash up on the topslide and ruined the gib strip. He wasn't into making his own. It took 5 months to arrive and then had to be scraped in! A Myford is simply buy and fit, or just modify some ground flat stock. Suppliers of Chinese kit do not always have spares in stock and it can take some time to get them!

As ever, it is swings and roundabouts. What do you want a lathe for, Is a question to ask? If you want to produce large items, then a larger Chinese lathe is the answer. If only small items then an ML10 should be on your list. They can be had cheaply. I Paid £500 for an excellent one, on a Myford stand, complete with the usual 3 and 4 jaw chuck, faceplate and dogs. A huge range of HSS cutting tools and a set of dead centre completed the list. I even got the scrap bin. The contents of which would have set me back by a few hundred pounds. Lots of brass rod and aluminium rod and bars, plus a huge range of steel stock of various (marked) grades.

Andrew.

Hi Stuart,

I've had a Drummond great little lathe. An old British made Challenger lathe terrible, a Myford which I couldn't get rid of quick enough. I have just purchased a Boxford TS10.20 in near new condition for £1500 and it is a dream to use the closest hobby machine I've used compared to industrial machines. I cannot recommend Boxford enough far better than the "M" word machines.

Good luck.

Interesting. But in the US, the Atlas is regarded as a very second rate machine compared with a South Bend 9".

I recently picked up a mint hardly used Boxford 330 in 40" bed length for silly money too, just £2,200.

Of the Boxfords, the X10 series lathes (10.20, 10.30, 280, 330 etc) are particularly capable yet undervalued.

And going back to Myford, I too have gone through my share of Myford's (one ML7 and four Super 7's, including a big bore), but to my mind the one that stands out as being the best value for money, and the most capable, is the 254 (coincidentally there is one of these now in my workshop too, and I also picked that up dirt cheap at £1,450).

There are decent secondhand lathes out there at sensible prices, but you have to keep your eyes open and may have to play a waiting game.

Edited By David Standing 1 on 19/10/2017 13:45:46

At the place I bought my Taiwanese BH 13 24 lathe in 1986, I had a choice of three lathes, the one I bought, a Myford Super 7, or a Taiwanese clone of the Myford. My lathe, and the clone cost a little over $NZ 1000, the Myford about $NZ 4500. The clone was not exactly a copy, as it was beefed up, and had a large bore spindle(MT 5, the same as the larger lathe that I bought).

Ian S C

For want of a nail,a shoe was lost

For want of a shoe,a horse was lost

For want of a horse,a rider was lost.

For want of a rider,a battle was lost

AND ALL FOR THE WANT OF A HORSESHOE NAIL !!!

Get your finger out and go buy a machine and start using it [or call back next year ]

+1 - At the end of the day it depends how much you can afford and what's available to you when you want it.

I bought an old ML7 but that was just what came my way at the time. I then bought a second hand Taiwanese round column mill.

Neither of them are perfect but then I don't suppose any other machine I could afford would have been perfect either. I might have done better if I'd waited but then again maybe not.

Do I ever wish I hadn't bought them? - No!

Over analysis never achieved anything.

Jon

I would argue that it's worth doing a bit of tyre kicking first.

How often do we get a new lathe?

Like buying a car there can be some pleasure in the process of looking at the options and some reassurance that you aren't just jumping in the dark is helpful too.

That said, I bought my Cl300M because it was a cheap return at my local Machine Mart. There wasn't anything wrong with it (a few change gears missing, sent FOC) and I've been using it since 1999...

Neil

P.S. now having seen and read about lots and lots of lathes, if I was getting a S/H lathe it would be a Boxford, the right balance of size, quality and affordability - but it would have to come with a full set of change gears & steadies as they are VERY expensive compared to those for imports.

I`m a bit biased towards old machinery ,i had a chester conquest but never really used it much and was basically a total novice .Then bought a southbend around 5 years ago for £250 from the mid 1960`s , very good condition with slight wear on the v bed.

I renovated it and my interest in lathes really peaked whilst totally dismantling it and painting it . You learn an awful lot about how machinery works when you do this. It came with two vertical slides, i sold the myford swivelling one for over £100. It has both rests and the telescopic type which can sell for quite alot . Also came with quite a bit of tooling and an emco quick change toolpost. The four jaw pratt burnerd chuck was unused just covered in gunk.

I just find old machinery much more interesting and more solidly built .

Edited By mark smith 20 on 19/10/2017 16:07:00

Hardly good advice for someone buying thier first machine !