Chucks

During my period in the apprentice training school I never saw a three jaw chuck. We were taught to centre a round bar in a four chuck using a piece of chalk (possibly because we could not be trusted with a "clock", possibly because we would get totally confused).

The three jaw chuck I have at present is so bad it cannot be used for anything (this is being corrected).

Therefore: Four jaw chuck, collets followed far behind by faceplate and turning between centres.

JA

I wonder if this is where the two different opinions come from, several posts by people who went through an engineering apprentiship seem to be advocation the 4-jaw approach. Where those like Neil and myself who have no engineering background (maybe a bit of metal work at school) and are just hobbiests favour the 3-jaw as the first buy for a fellow hobby turner.

I seem to remember Brian John only has a 3-jaw on his little Optimun machine which is a similar size to what teh OP is looking to buy yet he has managed to make several engines on it.

J

I would imagine that someone totally unfamiliar with turning would be left very frustrated by using a 4 jaw independent to begin with. You're kinda being thrown in at the deep end there. If you want a piece of round material chucked reasonably over a range of sizes then you'll be very satisfied with a 3 jaw and more importantly, actually turning rather than setting up. Get the 4 jaw once you can deal with turning and using a 3 jaw.

Michael W

where those like Neil and myselW

Put me in that bracket, too. I bought a lathe with a 3 jaw chuck. But in hindsight, I could have done better with the 4 jaw independent from the off. Most certainly able to use a dti, so perhaps ahead of you two at the starting point, but the 4 jaw chuck is far easier than working round not being able to remove the item from the chuck (until all turning is completed). Unbolting and bolting on chucks is a pain (yes, I will put up with not being able to turn with the lathe in reverse).

for size aren't 3-jaw chucks more expensive than 4-jaw chucks?

They may be offering a smaller or larger 4 jaw than 3 jaw - we don't know. There may be a quality difference, as well.

Only one set of jaws needed for the independent chuck is yet another plus for the 4 jaw, too. The first time anyone re-chucks a part they will wish they had a dti! That is if they notice the problem, of course....

It is somewhat a revelation that the lathe is actually being offered with a choice of chuck.

Just as a comment, I'm often surprised how little people seem to use their faceplates. They are very useful devices to have and can often solve a problem that would be hard to set-up & machine otherwise.

I generally agree that a three jaw would be the best choice for an absolute beginner but if I could only have ONE chuck, it would most certainly be an independent four jaw. I don't think it's that hard to get work roughly centred in one, a simple centring device (wiggler) could be made (so a DTI is not absolutely necessary) and of course, I can do so much more with it (eccentrics, facing, off-set drilling, second operations etc.)

Regards,

IanT

I think that the increase in the number of people with small bench top mills has reduced the use of faceplates and also to some extent the 4-jaw. Before they became available the lathe was often the only machine in the ME's workshop so it had to handle a far greater variety of work and machining operations which needed the faceplate and 4-jaw and vertical slide.

Out of interest I just looked through my photo album for the little flame licker that I did a couple of weeks ago, 100 odd photos and the 4-jaw only used twice, once for some offset work which could have been done by packing the 3-jaw and once to hold a bit of wood that happened to be square, could easily have shaped it to fit roughly in teh 3-jaw as it was only to screw a disc of metal to.

Its certainly interesting reading all your comments although I am a bit confused now. The lathe I am referring to is the Taig/Peatol. Both chucks are on their price list at the same price, the 3-jaw is described as self centering, steel body with soft aluminium reversible jaws, the 4-jaw with reversable heat treated steel jaws. Spare sets of the soft aluminium are also available. Hope this helps.

I'm not surprised Brian!

It seems that those who were trained professionally favour starting with a 4-jaw chuck, whilst the amateurs think it's better to start with a 3-jaw. How confusing!

Or perhaps it makes it easy. Unless you're going to be trained by an expert, start with a 3-jaw. No driving lessons are needed to work a 3-jaw chuck. It will get you started without any aggravation.

Later on, you will almost certainly discover that you need a 4-jaw as well. Then you can take time out learning how to centre work in it. youtube has videos showing how it's done, or you can ask on this forum. In short, you have to repetitively adjust each jaw individually. It's a skill and skills take practice to learn.

Dave

Thanks Dave, I think thats the way I shall go!

Brian.

I could be cruel, and say 4-jaws are favoured by people who get a smug sense of self-satisfaction from using one.

My bog standard Zither 3-jaw is concentric to a thou, and that's fine for most jobs I do, and I know when I need the 4-jaw, which isn't very often.

Mostly when T need concentricity it's something like a gear wheel blank, which I typically turn at one setting (so the chuck doesn't matter) and mount it on a turned in place mandrel for cutting the teeth.

Neil

Cripes! Soft aluminium jaws? OK, it's a small lathe, but aluminium jaws? I withdraw my vote for the three-jaw! Perhaps someone who knows better will contradict me, but I'd have thought they would get roughed up in next to no time. I suppose that's why they list replacement jaws for the three-jaw, but not for the all-steel 4-jaw.

Rob

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Hi Brian,

You don't mention if you are experienced with a lathe or not.?

As a relative 'newbie' myself with about 2 1/2 years since I started this it's still reasonably fresh in my mind.

So if you are new to this I (personally) would buy a 3 jaw chuck, some good quality tooling, some various material types and some cutting oil and start practicing turning. Spend countless hours doing this. Preferably to loud music. But basically just turning metal and making swarf.!!

You will have good sessions doing this and bad ones. - No time doing this is IMHO wasted.! You will learn more when things go wrong than when they go right. (perhaps just my view)

But what more than anything is still fresh in my mind is that cheap tools are expensive tools as it's often money wasted and false economy.

Also consider if it's possible to purchase the lathe at a reduced price without any chuck and put the money towards an ER32 one and a set of collets from the likes of ARC

Nick

The peatol has three chucks available as standard accessories, a 3 and 4 jaw with replaceable aluminium soft jaws and a 4-jaw with steel jaws.

My first small lathe, back in the 1980s, was a Peatol. I had both the 3 jaw and the 4 jaw chucks.

I found this very much a problem and seemed to spend most of my time truing the jaws until I had a pair of steel jaws made for it. Then, it was fine.

Personally, I struggled to get anything centred in the 4 jaw chuck. From memory, the threads for adjusting the jaws were very coarse, but as I have not used any other makes, that might be common.

James.

Having the ali jaws will solve one of the problems that people say a 3-jaw has as you will be able to reverese work and keep it concentric as they can be treated like soft jaws.

Also easy enough to tap a couple of holes in the soft aluminium to screw a set of steel faces too if you are worried about then deforming too quickly.

Many a good bit of work been done on a taig / Peatol so don't knock them until you try them.

When I bought my lathe 18 months ago, it came with a 3 Jaw and Simon (SPG tools and an engineer by trade) said the main thing I'd need would be a 4 jaw. So I bought one.

I've not used it. The three jaw is fairly rubbish (or the lathe or the spindle I bashed - or <blush> the operator), so I've done a fair amount of turning between centres.

I had a few goes at setting stuff up in the 4 jaw, but basically abandoned the effort each time.

I don't say this is the right approach, and after this debate I can see that it may be worth spending some hours learning how to clock in the 4 jaw.

The advocates of the 4 jaw appear to be mainly people who have been rigorously trained in its use (whether they want to or not) and I expect they are correct that it's the better choice.

But if you want to just turn metal I expect the 3 jaw will lead to more initial progress.

Iain

JA

Well you have been given lots of (varying!) advice!

Mine is get the lathe with the 3 jaw and get used to using the machine. Whilst doing so save your pennies and buy a 4 jaw independent as soon as you can.

I do accept that you COULD do all your work in a 4 jaw independent and you will, in time, need one - but you can get cutting metal straight away with the 3 jaw, gain experience and have fun! What you don't need now is additional difficulties!

Norman

ps I have 3 jaw s/c, 3 jaw Griptru, 4 Jaw s/c , ER collet chuck and 4 Jaw Ind chucks for my lathe. The 3  jaw s/c gets most use.

Edited By NJH on 23/05/2017 11:03:08

I fully support Norman, I was professionally trained & do know how to set up a 4 jaw but for a beginner go for a 3 jaw, you will in general get a lot more use out of it.

Tony

Edited By martin perman on 23/05/2017 11:28:27

When I got my first lathe, maybe 40 years ago, I had both a 3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck. I nearly always used the 3 jaw, finding setting up a 4 jaw to be the work of the devil.

I can now quickly and easily centre a 4 jaw chuck BUT I would much rather use my 3 jaw if at all possible! I think those that recommend a 4 jaw as an "only" first chuck are doing a disservice to the total newcomer. Most beginners jobs can be done with a 3 jaw. At this point, the beginner has enough to worry about without having to set up a 4 jaw.

Andrew.