Vanishing local shop outlets.

Hi all,

It can work both ways, we had a little bookshp opened in our town, run by two very nice ladies, and noticed that it was a "branch" of the bookshop they also ran in a larger local town. A few months later we noticed they were having a closing down sale, and when I asked if they were finding things hard, they said "oh no, we have started trading on the internet, and we are closing both shops , we are making more than we have ever made before, and the shops are just overheads we no longer need" Anyone can trade on the net and sell to the world, insted of just to people who walk past the door, or who are willing to travel to your store. I have run three different sorts of shops, and I know exactly what they mean. If you are in a trade where the profits are limited, then the overheads of rent, business rates and overheads can eat all your profit !

Phil

Muzzer sums its up. Everyone of us, bar none (unless there is a mini silicon valley hidden away in the UK somewhere) is now staring at a device that is made in the Far East and most refer to far east as being west of Japan through to west India A glance around the room will lump the majority of items into the same category as well...cell phones, TV, stereo, etc.

No doubt there is some excellent quality gear from this broadly defined region..I have a Korean lathe which the better half claims I love more than her! There's also plenty of rubbish as well and we sometimes have a task picking out the better items. The mill drill is also an eastern variety. It has some limitations and not the quality of the lathe but which home hobbyist can trot out and buy a new Cincinnati just to mill up a few hornblocks and a few cylinders.

Times have changed. I agree with Jesse, the memories of the trip to town and visiting the various stores with goodies abound while Mum headed off to the department stores are priceless. But the cost of postage charged by online sellers would not even cover the cost of fuel and with time so precious, we can comfortably beaver away at our projects and complete the never ending domestic chores knowing that bag of BA nuts is on its way. Without opening a can of worms, the changing times and the increasingly limited availability of BA sizes is an area of consternation as I've yet to find good quality small size metric threadforms that adequately replace BA. (Methinks I might get shot down here!) I note that a UK supplier is claiming an ideal substitute with excellent quality and scale hex sizes source from Germany, I've just purchased (online!) some of the sizes so looking forward to using them.

Finally something to consider and some personal observations. China might be cheap but they have a single mission and that is to increase GDP, improve the quality of living and address their environmental woes with air and water quality. (which is part of the reason I spend a chunk of working time here) The result of all this is that cost of production is heading upwards. Just live in any major city on the coastal side and you will easily pay western prices for apartments, cars (if you are lucky enough to draw the ballot), food and entertainment. I'm not saying this will give rise to opportunities for the machine tool industry in the west but things will begin level out in the not too distant future.

Michael GOOD FOR YOU for sticking up for the manufacturers. I used to visit the Cowley plant regularly and so I noticed the changes, blimey they even started employing women!!! Oh and by the way really felt sorry for the workers on line they certainly earned their crust. As you say all British industry suffered from a lack of backing which was a point I was trying to make in another thread but mud does sticks I'm afraid.

I don't really know that much about the mining industry to comment with any authority but it always struck me that a certain lady held a grudge against the miners and it became a struggle of willpowers. We now import coal to Newcastle!?

I used to visit all the car plants as far as Preston and down past London and all in the time you speak of. All were making massive efforts to save the industry. I too was affected by the decline. I started in the department of twenty people and I left when there were just two.

Michael winks:  I hear you mate I just feel I won't be around to see the results.

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 24/01/2015 08:49:38

Maybe things improved then Jesse but they certainly needed to..

I regularly visited a large BL plant near Spaghetti Junction in the '70s (to do plant maintenance work). It was a real pain in the backside to go there for a number of reasons and I was delighted when some other poor s** took over the work and I was moved elsewhere..

Although I had previously owned a new Triumph Dolomite (which I enjoyed driving) I was never tempted to buy another BL car after seeing inside one of their factories.

IanT

Sorry got side tracked.

My nearest "local" tool shop is about 15 miles away. I don't go there very often but I do use the Internet regularly for routine purchases. Prices are reasonable, quality pretty good generally - and of course it's convenient. It's a pity that 'local' shops (and pubs too!) are closing - and I wish it was otherwise.

But as I don't use them very much myself, I can't really complain.

IanT

Hey Ian, the sidetrack brings back memories. I recall working on a Triumph Stag..local solicitor and man about town owned it, claimed I could tune it like no other. I also recall Leyland Marina...what a dog..with apologies to the British motor industry! You either loved them or hated them..and mechanics, it was the latter. They were new around the early 70's in Australia.

Jesse, I wont be around either but my fear is that my great grandson will be known, in the Chinese owned home in Australia, as Jeeves.....

All these arguments about foreign good of low quality being imported into Britain is far from new, I'v just been looking at a volume of "English Mechanic and Mirror of Science" from 1868, first was the import of railway iron from Belgium, much cheaper than British iron. Then an article about watches, and the cheap, low quality imports from Switzerland. A couple of adds from the same publication Wanted, a good second hand lathe,9in centre, 5ft, or6ft, ironplaned bed, back gear, slide and hand rests, large face plate and chucks, with a few tools. Also a good large sized portable forge suitable for ordinary rough work, and a small anvil.-Lowest price and full particulars may be sent toARTIZAN, Gosport, Hants.

For Sale---Several Turning lathed, 4in, 5in, and 6in centres, new and second hand; also second hand planning machine, plane 2ft 9in by 14in. Several sets of lathe castings--R. PEARE, 77 Great Suyffolk street, Borough, London.

Ian S C

When I was a maintenance electrician on the shop floor I had to buy and use my own tools, this was normal then. Now all the skilled men in our plant are not allowed to use their own tools and were instructed to take their own tools home. If this common practice now then skilled men will not be shopping locally for their tools and large business will have an account at major distributors. Oxford had one toolshop where you could buy toolmaking equipment but they are long gone, the surviving tool merchant leans more to the building and mechanic type tools, they are willing to order more exotic stuff but you fall back to the see and feel problem. Oxford is not an industrial town as anyone who has visited will know. The car factory had to be quite self sufficient compared to the midland plants which had the workshop to the world on their doorstep. Shopping in Oxford is a wretched experience as the car is seen as a cash cow, city centre parking is at Dick Turpin rates and even a visit by park and ride will cost £4.70 plus fuel for the round trip. I don't think local shopping has a future except for clothes and restaurants, on a rare clothes shopping trip the lady on the till asked me if I had enjoyed my shop? I had to say no but it was unavoidable as sons graduation meant I needed a new suit and the internet is not the best place to buy a suit. Despite postage costs I think the internet has local shopping beaten hands down, wide choice, keen prices, no parking or fuel cost and open 24/7, what is not to like? With many suppliers able to get your purchase to you in a couple of days this is often quicker and more convenient than trying to fit in a shopping trip.

Mike - totally sold on the internet!

Strange how the goalposts move, back in the early sixties it was Jap crap, then Taiwanese crap, now Chinese crap which it now being overrun with likewise Indian variety. Better quality demands better selling prices, despite the Yorkshire colloquialism, Tha dowent get owt for nowt. How highly regarded is Japanese and Taiwanese equipment now?

Regards Ian.

Give it twenty years and the cheap stuff will be coming from Africa, everyone else will have moved up one more rung on the ladder.

Neil

Yep and they'll still be using the original manufacturing drawings that all the rest have used, so you'll still have to sort the electrics and clean out Capetown sand from the castings.

Regards Ian.

When I was a boy about 60 years ago there was a very good tool shop in South Shield called Frank Lakes. I remember drooling over the two window displays one full of Moore & Wright and Eclipse type metal working tools and the other window showing a range of Stanley and Record wood working planes etc. How I longed to go in and buy some of these goodies but I could not afford them on my pocket money.

Fast forward to the late 1990's when I paid a visit to South Shields after many years away in the soft south I went to find Frank Lakes shop only to find that it only sold wallpaper, paint and general house hold hardware. Now I understand it has totally gone a victim of the big sheds no doubt. But I still have my memories of this once "Aladdin's Cave"

If you start from the Haymarket Premier Inn in Edinburgh and then walk up the street towards town you will come across a Hardware store on the right, if you look in the window you will see that they sell second had tools, ive had bore gauges, drills, micrometers and various other bits and pieces. Its been a year since I last worked in Edinburgh but its fair to assume they are still there.

Martin P

I think we could set the music to this song now aye? We all seem to be saying the same thing no matter where we live.

Napoleon called the British a bunch of shop keepers or words to that effect but it seems it no longer applies.

I went to the open air market with a neighbour this Sunday morn as she wanted to stock-up on meat for her freezer. First thing I noticed having not been there for years was how few outlets are left there.

However I managed to pick up a pack of drill bits and a few other odds and sods.

The packaging says BERGEN titanium drill bit set. 13pieces from 6.5 to 1.5mm and all for £3.99. Titanium coated possibly. They are hex drive meant to go in a snap fit type drill. I worry not, since they will fit in a normal three jaw drill chuck. So if I manage to drill one hole with each drill I'll say fair enough. I worry that if the drill grabs there's no second chance, it has to break since they can't slip. No drilling of important blind holes then.

I'll keep you posted Jesse

Edited By Jesse Hancock 1 on 25/01/2015 13:43:15

By chance I found, on the internet, that a local trailer manufacturer sells about 3 sizes of angle iron retail, obviously just because they have a load as part of their work. I wonder if other businesses could be persuaded that if they have it in stock anyway it wouldn't hurt their bottom line to make a few extra sales.
Years ago there was a little business next to school that was getting loads of transistors like OC35 in cheap (probably rejects from Mullard) and testing them to sell unbranded. The women testing them would happily sell a couple to a schoolboy and whether the money went into their handbag or the petty cash I doubt the managers minded as it was just like a 'tip' for the workers.

> Years ago there was a little business next to school that was getting loads of transistors like OC35 in cheap (probably rejects from Mullard) and testing them to sell unbranded.

And the ones they rejected probably got sent to Clive Sinclair...

Neil

We have a well known hardware store in town, been there forever. If You want anything now they hand You a catalog and tell You to find it and they will order it in when the order is big enough. Why go to them? Might as well order from the comfort of My chair and bypass the trip in town and waiting.They wonder where their business is going.

I shall continue with the same old rant! if the councils were to abolish parking charges between friday evening and monday morning people will use the town centres as there are more products available than supermarkets which would then enliven the high street and would encourage new business, I also think that huge supermarkets should pay a levy for taking away the high street trade, personally I only use supermarkets if I have to, better meat from the local butcher not unhung fresh tough meat, decent bread from our local baker not steam baked bread that is stale the next morning, even the local DIY has stuff you cant get in the big stores, and another thing! as young people dont have the DIY skills that we have attained, they still wonder why the shelf fell down when they used the reccommended product and read the instructions and it went on the wall ok only to fall off taking the wallpaper with it, true story, also now get comments like "why does your varnished wood shine when mine is all cloudy", blame the EU for that what with banning high vc products etc,time for tea.

Twas a sad day when Turtles of Croydon shut down.

Richard,

It is a well known fact, that todays shoppers cannot walk further than 200 yds from their car. I live not far from Reading in Berkshire, the centre has two main streets parallel to each other, the main street Broad Street and to the north Friar Street. Since the building of the Oracle Shopping Mall to south of Broad Street, Friar Street has declined as shops are turned into theme pubs or hotels. Also roads radiating from the town centre the shops there are being turned into offices.

Regards Luigi.