Training

When I started back on the task of making thing sin my home workshop, it had been 40 years since I last used a lathe, things come back to me but then I have the advantage of having had the training in the first place.

A number of people have said to me that either by the way of a 'refresher' or basic training on workshop techniques, machining, etc. they were looking for local training but none was to be found, or it was very expensive, and often geared to CNC operations rather than small workshop skills i.e.what we folks do in our sheds.

I am seriously considering starting a not-for-profit organisation to do this, is anyone interested, do you have any views?

Cliff

As someone with a lot of experience in the charity sector, I'd caution that the first step should always be to see if there are organisations out there that already address the issue you are concerned about. Diversity of approaches is good, but duplication can be a problem for all when the target beneficiaries or the resources available are llimited.

To some extent most model engineering clubs are 'not for profits' and so is the SMEE, who run courses. it sound like 'Men in Sheds' may do some of what you are thinking of. I don't want to pour water on what sounds like a worthwhile idea, but it may be that if you approach the right organisations they may either do what you want, or be willing to look at ways of doing it. At the very least, you may get some good advice or helpful support.

If you do decide to set up a not for profit or a charity, drop me a pm - I may be able to help with advice.

Neil

Cliff

Could you give some idea of how you would organise this? Where would the training take place - who would deliver it- what audience would it be aimed at etc.

Providing workshop training is a laudable ambition but I'm having difficulty envisioning how it might work. Training IS still available, notably from the SMEE and from Axminster Power Tools. Also folk have posted here that it is available from technical colleges in a few locations. All these options are OK for those who live in thr vicinity - but how about the majority that don't?

Regards

Norman

Cliff,

David Clark 1 dipped his toe in the water about 18 months ago on this training issue . His input on the subject would be useful.

There is always going to be a problem in bringing together trainers and trainees in economic numbers and I think that this is where videos can be useful. Again D C 1 was involved in putting the MIT videos onto this site somewhere but I'm not sure whether it got up and running satisfactorily.
Anybody got any updates on this?

Bob D

I am seriously considering starting a not-for-profit organisation to do this, is anyone interested, do you have any views?

---

A view

The council will kill it. They will regulate you to death

If you want to advance humans nowadays... particularly with skills, then do it in secret

Cliff,

If you are putting on courses either for profit or non profit, you will still find yourself having to conform to "Health and safety" regulations, also you will need public liability insurance , electrical equipment will need PAT testing for safety etc, etc,

It will soon start to cost YOU money !

Richard.

As a true beginnner in all this, I would love to find what I would call 'recreational training' locally but everything that is available is geared toward helping youngsters on a career path with all the associated emphasis on exams & qualifications. Nothing wrong with that of course, this country is going to need many new engineers in the future.

I remember lots of colleges and even some schools would put on evening classes in all sorts of subjects but alas this seems to have disappeared these days. The Axminster & SMEE courses mentioned above are all well & good but nowhere near where most people including myself live. Incidentally I notice on the SMEE website that their next course starts in February 2013...!

regards

Brian

hi cliff,

im a complete amatuer with no engineering training. i can only help re my own experiences when i started building my first miniature loco 30 years ago at the age of 16. i wanted to drive steam locomotives and after volunteering on the fullsize railways reckoned the only way i would achieve this aim was to build my own.

with loco building, its a step by step approach. you start by learning how to mark out a set of frames and file to a straight line and drill accurately. simple turning and machining of wheels and axles follows etc. then boring and reaming of axlepumps and in my case making patterns for frame stretchers etc and casting. then milling and boring of axleboxes. then it's on to cylinders.

silver soldering is an art easy acquired with the right approach and equipment, and a boiler isnt that hard to do so long as the first attempt isnt a belpaire firebox and tapered barrel!

ive never had a lesson in my life, but for many years have made my own injectors and have never bought a boiler fitting apart from pressure gauges (though ive made one myself).

i have a considerable collection of model engineer magazines and have always been a member of a club where helpful and not so helpful advice is freely given!

join your local club, decide what you want to build, and good luck! there isnt anything bettter in my book than 'having a go' and you will soon pick things up!

cheers,

julian

Great idea cliff but i'm also thinking along the lines of HSE etc who would kill it dead in the water.In this nanny state we now have to live we seem to be inundated with with petty bureaucrats who have nothing better to do than find a reason to justify their outragious wages and existance, they have never had a poper job in the workplace ,just sat behind a desk complaining about the air conditioning.

Although i'm in no way a engineer i do enjoy making plenty of swarf and mistakes but also learning along the way.I was employed by the County Council for a number of years teaching Upholstery at night schools and It is now regulated so much by E.U in order for them to obtain funding that to make a class viable the numbers req'd become to high.So while I wish you every sucess if you continue I think they will be out to get you.

If you're within travelling distance I for one would welcome tuition.

Best of luck ,

Bob

HSE ? Hmmmm......... What a good thing that they didn't have that back in the olden days of the mills, coal mines etc. There would have been no access to all that cheap, expendable, labour and Britian would never have been Great ..........what's more we could all be living that way today. ( Although I note that many of my ancestors from that period died in their early 50s)

N

> i'm also thinking along the lines of HSE etc who would kill it dead in the water.

I have no idea why people think this!

At work we run activities for children that involve lighting fires, using knives, axes, saws and other sharp tools. Some of these invovle primary school age children.

It's part of an initiative called Forest Schools, and there are no difficulties with insurance or HSE. There, of course, a requirement for proper training, risk assessment and child safety - but these things are all perfectly reasonable things to do, and not overly onerous.

Neil

That's probably a more realistic idea. Perhaps a section could be added to the forum for beginers to find local mentors?

I would be willing to help but I doubt if there is anyone on here within 100 km of here.

Russell

Hi Neil,

> i'm also thinking along the lines of HSE etc who would kill it dead in the water.

I have no idea why people think this!

This comes from experience, perhaps I just had the misfortune to meet the braindeads who couldn't be bothered to help and found it far easier to condemn.

Bob

It's usually jobsworths who come up with crazy rules, not the HSE themselves. Like the headteacher whio banned conkers and another one we came across who wouldn't let us plant rowan trees in case the kids ate the (edible) berries.

Neil

I too have looked for courses and havn't found anything of any use. However I have come accross people willing to help and share knowledge.. I know we are all scattered accross the globe, but we all have someone relitivly near-by. If we all get to know our neighbours and those close by, share knowledge and techniques, we can teach each other.

For those who cant travel so easy... get plenty of coffee in!

I'm in the process of getting a garage/workshop for the bike and toys to go in and when its ready all are welcome to show me how to use my stuff. I'm more than willing to travel to learn and when the time comes I will also try to teach.

To have a dedicated learning place would require an awful lot of cash to set up and maintain, it would also be very vunerable to theft while nobody was there.

Can only be a good thing Cliff. I have done the Basic Traiing course at SMEE, learnt loads and they are really friendly bunch. Unfortunately they are just that bit too far away to get to use their shop in opening hours. It is however a classroom course - no practical. Unlike their poly course which I am yet to enrol in, but that is still project based so all practical done in your own time.

What exactly do you have in mind? Running it through your local club? Project or class/theory based? Practical lessons?

I wonder how many lessons Lathework 101 would involve..?

Thanks for your comments guys, really important and I do like it when there is a response!

Well I have some very detailed ideas on how to deliver such training developed over a good number of years now,and informed from from my corporate experience where training people in small numbers spread all over the place (UK and elsewhere) was vital to my various corporate interests. (this included hardware and safety procedures too)

The 'H&S' bogeymen gets wheeled out as an excuse in this country to do nothing too often, suffice it to say I have taken a lot of professional advice on this side of the equation and on the likely costs of public and associated liability insurances.

In outline, and I am reluctant to give too much away until I have had another couple of meetings with potential backers over the next month or so.

I am looking at several 'layers' to the training delivery model:

1- online resources delivering structured content, both aggregated extant content and specially prepared content.

2- the use of existing facilities (schools and colleges for example) as a venue but with training delivered by the proposed not-for-profit organizations' trainers; this would allow a potentially wider reach and more even geographic coverage than just relying on the college-driven courses which in most areas of 'adult' education re under severe pressure

3- for those ME clubs, hackspaces etc that have workshop facilities (and this is a diminishing small proportion) then adding them into the mix with (2) would be a good idea, subject of course to their agreement, but it might also drive more members to local clubs and hackspaces

4- longer courses, possibly residential using the above locations and a small number of national purpose-oriented locations.

Please keep your views and ideas,suggestions and opinions going, its vital to me.

This may all come to nothing, but I think its worth a try.

Cheers,

Cliff

Why not do as we do here in Scarborough form a group and hire the College workshops together with a member of staff , its not cheap but we think it is worth the money. We have access to larger lathes,large milling machines, grinders and some welding equipment.We have been doing this for the past 7 or 8 years and this year have a waiting list.We have an open evening every year as a means of recruiting new group members, usually one two decide to drop out,not this year. I collect the money and have a contract with the management. We meet for 20 evenings,10 before Christmas and 10 after Christmas. We don't get any help from the College regarding publicty,we are stand alone group.Ted

I am showing the sort of training schemes major manufacturers ran in the 1960's. This photo is of the Vickers Armstrongs Aircraft Apprentice training school at Weybridge - later BAC. The intake was so large in 1963 that another school was set up within the factory itself for a further 100 first year apprentices, making it about 150 first years in ntotal.

Besides fitting etc, there were all the principal machines - Myford 7s, milling,slotting, shaping cylindrical and surface grinders, even a forge. Apprentices were sorted into Graduates, Engineers,Technicians and Craft apprentices covering mechanical, toolmakers and electrical engineers. Schemes usually ran for 5 years with university / college attendance.

Vickers made many aircraft, the last were the Viscount, Vanguard,VC10, 1-11,fuselage and cockpit assemblies for Concorde and TSR2.

Very interesting photo. I did an apprenticeship there starting in 1980. There were about 80 in the intake that year. I was one of 20 technician apprentices. There were from memory about 10 on a graduate scheme and the rest were craft level. Us technicians did about 6 months in the training workshop, covering everything from basic fitting, sheet metal work, welding, hand forging, turning and milling. I don't recognise the building although the mills look familiar. The apprentices there have wooden toolboxes where ours were aluminium alloy. I don't recall any surface grinders in the shop and all the lathes were modern Colchester (2000?). We were the first year to be exposed to CNC, writing G code on a Commodore Pet. It was a fantastic training experience. Shame most of these facilities are long gone now. Mine was a 4 year apprenticeship, with day release and evening college.

I'm trying to remember and relearn everything I was taught back then and am working on my first project, a Stuart 10V. Some of it is like riding a bike and some skills are long gone, if they were ever there in the first place