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What type of oil to use on a Milling machine

How to keep rust at bay!

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Alvin Schlitter13/01/2010 11:43:07
14 forum posts
I am wondering what others use on a new milling machine to keep rust forming on the bed of the machine. For me the key is the application of the oil. Regular oil is very thick, can one dilute it with mineral oil then apply it? How about spraying the machine with WD40. I realize that there are many that regard WD40 as a hazardous chemical.
Please give me an idea of what do.
 
Thanks in advance!


Steve Garnett13/01/2010 12:00:06
837 forum posts
27 photos
Posted by Alvin Schlitter on 13/01/2010 11:43:07:
I am wondering what others use on a new milling machine to keep rust forming on the bed of the machine. For me the key is the application of the oil.

Have you read this thread? Generally the answer to this problem is not to have it happen in the first place if you can avoid it! Generally I keep the threads and ways with a wipe of light machine oil on them anyway, but not specifically to prevent rust...


Edited By Steve Garnett on 13/01/2010 12:03:03

Lawrie Alush-Jaggs13/01/2010 12:37:26
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118 forum posts
32 photos
Hi Alvin
I use a product called Inox on both the lathe and milling machine.  I don't know what the base is but it takes pride in saying that it does not contain silicon.  http://www.inox-mx3.com/
There is another product by Inox and a company named Fluid Film which are both lanolin based and do not smell at all of sheep.
I think you will find that someone like Clarke's will have either or both though you can order it from www.machineryhouse.com.au. 
All are available in both aerosol and non areosol containers.  I have been using the aerosol version of Inox though I am going to give it up in favour of the 4lt bulk pack and a Canon spray bottle.  The aerosol is farily expensive at $10.00/400g.  The bulk pack is about $50.00/4lt.
I have found Inox to be entirely satisfactory with a light spray.  I use it on pretty much everything I don't wax.
When I put away the four jaw, face plate or an infrequently used vice, I put them into a singlet bag or similar with a good spray of Inox and have no problem with rust no matter how cold or damp it gets (Australia, ha ha ha )
Ivan Prince13/01/2010 16:54:10
6 forum posts
Hi Alvin
I have used oil and i have still had the problem.
The only way to stop it rusting is to keep it in a heated workshop.
Failing that keep your eye on it every day and make sure it is well oiled.
 
My warco milling machine bed rusts a lot quicker that my myford lathe bed
Maybe the quality of the cast iron has a lot to do with it.
 
Ivan 
Frank Dolman13/01/2010 17:31:04
106 forum posts

     You will see that I started a thread "Long term rust prevention" under
   "Beginners' questions" on 10th July.  Quite a bit of very interesting
   information emerged.
John C13/01/2010 17:41:20
273 forum posts
95 photos
I got this from an idea by Bob on a woodworker's forum to keep cast iron tables rust free:
I attached two 15 ohm resistors (RS Components, stock no 160455,  £1.95 each pluspostage) to a strip of 3mm aluminium bolted to the rear of the lathe using the
existing machining holes. The resistors are wired in parallel and powered by a
12 v power supply used for low voltage lighting. Each reisistor is just hot to the touch, and the lathe is just a shade warmer than ambient temperature, thus preventing condensation. The power supply is only just warm. I was concerned about overheating and fire risk, but this all seems very stable, and the current drawn is well inside the spec of the power supply. Thanks for the idea Bob! Now to try to heat the rest of the garage.....
The Mk II version has the resistors clamped directly to the lathe by aluminium fingers - the resistors are cooler, so I'm assuming more heat is getting to the lathe. The resisitors are at 10deg C and the lathe bed is at 5 deg C while the rest of the workshop is 2 deg C - so I'm not in it!
and photos of my set up in 'warm bed' in the photo section.  Please note that both pictures show lathes that are 'resting' - I have insulated the terminals to the resistors but will take further precations to prevent swarf creating a short circuit prior to use.
John

Edited for formatting

Edited By John Corden on 13/01/2010 17:42:56

Edited By John Corden on 13/01/2010 17:43:42

Billy Mills13/01/2010 23:51:42
377 forum posts
Hi,
Low power heating to reduce corrosion has been around for a long time. A device called a Damp Chaser was fitted ( about 50 years ago) inside some electronic gear to keep the air temp up slightly to reduce condensation. It was about 20 Watts dissipation.
 
Some people use lightbulbs as heaters. Two mains bulbs in series will last almost forever and are easy to source. A good idea for handtools is to keep the tools inside a wooden box with  such a heater, the temp rise will be small but the air inside will be "dry".
 
 Obviously, the heater is most effective when warming a small amount of air that cannot move so an insulated enclosure is good. For a lathe, a cloth  cover will reduce the airflow compared with a naked machine so the air in contact with the metal will be a little warmer than ambient so is less likely to drop the water as condensation.
 
It is worth noting that the average humidity in the UK is about 50% because you can't get more than 70 miles from the sea. When the temp falls air cannot "hold" so much water so the excess falls out as condensation on cold surfaces.
 
If you need to "lay up" a machine to over winter,  grease will be better than oil.
 
 
regards,
 
Alan Gray.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Ian S C14/01/2010 01:42:43
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7468 forum posts
230 photos
Just don't use Oak for the wooden box,or you'll get rust when nothing else rusts!Ian S C
Philip McCrohan14/01/2010 07:43:16
1 forum posts
CRC Longlife is brilliant. 
Steve Garnett14/01/2010 09:47:20
837 forum posts
27 photos
Posted by John Corden on 13/01/2010 17:41:20:

The Mk II version has the resistors clamped directly to the lathe by aluminium fingers - the resistors are cooler, so I'm assuming more heat is getting to the lathe. The resisitors are at 10deg C and the lathe bed is at 5 deg C while the rest of the workshop is 2 deg C - so I'm not in it!

 Two 15 ohm resistors in parallel with 12v across them will dissipate about 20 Watts. If you have that much temperature difference between the resistors and the area of bed immediately surrounding them, I'd say that the energy transfer was pretty poor - in the immediate vicinity of it, you should be hard put to it to detect much difference at all between the resistor aluminium case and what it's bolted to. At the very least, you should use a layer of heat sink paste compound (you can get this from Maplins) between the resistor and the bed, I'd say, otherwise you are losing quite a lot of your 20 Watts of heat directly to the air.
 
And intuitively, I'd say  that a lathe bed's a pretty large area to try to warm evenly with just two resistors...
Alan Worland14/01/2010 10:04:43
247 forum posts
21 photos
Under my Myford I used 3 mains bulbs in series (I cant remember the wattage - I think 60) so total consumption was about 20 watts. Lathe (oiled) was covered with a heavy cotton material (ex curtain!) this used to keep everything just fine, the warmed air would circulate under the cover and keep the whole lathe cosy and rust free.
The only problem I had was with fluids and swarf in the drip tray - all over the cables, lamp holders and lamps, a right mess.
After several years of this it all got removed one day for a good clean up and never went back, I now just cover the oiled lathe with the cotton cover which over the years has become quite 'oily' and it all seems fine.
I can only think that the oily cover has some effect?
Alvin Schlitter16/01/2010 12:35:04
14 forum posts
Thank you everyone for the replies, living here in Thailand we do not get the large temperature changes that others might get, however we do get high humidity in the monsoon season.
 
Thanks again to all!
Terryd16/01/2010 13:49:54
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
I'm a bit dubious about using a textile cover such as cotton.  Cotton especially is well known for moisture absorption  Surely if your workshop is damp, textiles will absorb moisture and retain it, keeping it in contact with the metal of the machine for longer?
 
I have a rather damp unheated large garage in which I use part of as a workshop.  I actually use a product sold by Arc Eurotrade as a coating but my main weapon is to use a loosely fitting polythene cover over each machine and I have very little problem with rust.  Even using just the polythene covers previously I have had little problem. I found that the moisture in the air seemed to fall down onto the machine (a bit like rain) and and the covers prevent this.
 
On my milling machine I kept the large poly bag it came in and actually use that, on the Boxford I simply drape over a poly sheet .  It seems to work.  Hand tools etc are kept in cupboards and drawers and don't have a problem with rust.
 
By the way, Arc Eurotrade (usual disclaimers here) sell a very good rust remover for use with hand tools  and small components, which removes rust and forms a protective coating and seems to work incredibly well.  Not sure of the name but it's in their catalogue.
Terryd16/01/2010 14:06:47
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1946 forum posts
179 photos
In addition to my last post.  I should also have said that I wipe the bare metal of the machines with a paper towel and a  little light oil when I leave it (after cleaning) and wipe over before using with a clean one.  Also I make sure that there is never any swarf left, especially ferrous.
 
As an afterthought, would a sacrificial block (eg. zinc), such as is used on ferrous hulled boats, help if bolted to a machine?  Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me could help to answer that.
 
I also remember that the Arc Eurotrade product I mentioned is called 'Restore Rust Remover'.
mgj16/01/2010 16:00:50
1017 forum posts
14 photos
Alvin - in the tropics you have very high humidity, so you are not going to beat it by warmth.
 
You either install a dehumidifier (AKA air conditioning) or as you say you apply oil, (or a preservative grease on the non contact parts).
 
That should be fine if the machine is in regular use. For oil I'd be inclined to use a very thick oil, but I would cut it with something so you can spray it on and the solvent will evaporate off leaving a thin layer of a heavy preservative oil which is quite easy to live with, because it won't run..
 
If you use soluble cutting oil, it may not be such a good idea to use WD40 and the like because they tend to make the emulsion separate which is a pain. However it might be better to use a straight oil anyway.
 
Sorry to borrow on experience gained from a past existence - that may not be the only way to do it, but it does work.
 
There is also a special high cling preservative oil available still I think called Rangoon Oil. Unfortunately it was designed for guns, so you can't use it on machine tools, but it is easy to wipe on and very difficult to remove, even in the rain.
 
 
 
 

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 16/01/2010 16:05:30

Martin W16/01/2010 19:12:50
940 forum posts
30 photos
Meyrick
 
If it is of interest Rangoon Oil is available from http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/GUN_OIL.html at £5-50 for 125ml cans. I take it that it would be OK for protecting exposed parts that one didn't need to lubricate like pillar drill columns etc.?
 
Cheers
 
Martin W
mgj16/01/2010 19:31:44
1017 forum posts
14 photos
I used it on my rifle shooting commercially, and I also took it out earlier to the Thai border, when one was doing other things.  It seemed to cling very well and lubricate well too. It doesn't gum like some gun oils, and it seems to cling like whatever to the proverbial, so even after handling the kit in heavy rain, there still remains a layer. I daresay its better if you don't handle it, but that's not the name of the game.
 
I think I'd try to find a main supplier. £5.50 for a 125 ml can seems a lot of money for little spread.
 
Of course the other high cling (very very high cling ) preservative oil is chainsaw chain oil. That would be a bit too thick as a lubricant (though it has lubricating properties), but  diluted and then painted or wiped on as a preservative oil I think it would be very good (and cheap). I have a chainsaw, and but nothing has rusted on either chain or cutter bar, and it lives unheated outside all year. I also use chain oil on every garden implement after use, and there is stuff that remains pretty shiny after 5 years in a cold old shed. Some of it only gets used once a year, and the hedgecutter bars are still well oily, bright and sharp, untouched, a year on.
 
I think the Rangoon oil would be less hassle because you can use it as is, though you'd have to replace it more frequently, but chain oil  provides a very acceptable protection I imagine. Well it does for me - just dob it on with a paintbrush, and nothing rusts.

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 16/01/2010 19:32:45

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 16/01/2010 19:38:54

Graham Horne24/01/2010 10:45:19
14 forum posts
Evening all, as a steel boat owner I can add these words....
Zinc anodes are sacrificial for electrolysis, lots of stray currents in marinas and docks.
Zinc cream has kept steel turnbuckle threads unrusted for years in seaspray and rain.
But best of all is lanolin, such as that mentioned by Laurie. Tried all oils, sprays etc.
Lanolin such as Inox in pump or pressure form stays on and works even when handled.
Doesn't dry out, smell, discolour, attract dust or moisture, or wash off with coolant. Brill! GH

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