A very close call with a scammer

Firstly I never repost but this is an important lesson. apologies.

Just because it looks all right? You better look very very very carefully.

We recently bought a new house. An exciting time. The usual thing we paid a nominal deposit on the day pending payment of the full amount a couple of days later. Having looked at a number of properties with the same estate agent we knew several of the sales staff and the name of the sales office accountant who had properly handled the initial deposit.

All good so far.

A couple of days later we received an email telling us the bank account details for the rest of the deposit, The email used the logo and office details of the agency together with the names of the sales agent and the details of the amount owing. However, there was one difference. the bank account details had changed to a new account number. Apart from that it looked like the initial deposit email.

Luckily this triggered an alarm in our minds. It was then that we also noticed a difference in the web address, so we phoned the agency to check the validity of the email. They were shocked! They knew nothing of the infiltration of their computer. And yes! it was a scam.

I later found out that this bank account number was indeed a genuine Australian bank account number. The Police told me that this is the norm. However, any money paid into that account would have been whisked out of the country in seconds.

What had happened is that the estate agent’s office computer system had been hacked. The hackers had gained access to the records of current sales taking place at the time and were able to construct bogus documents to use against current transactions. With all the correct names and logos in place.

We were lucky, the small discrepancies triggered that essential check phone call. Had we not done that we would have suffered a substantial loss. As I understand it another client did not notice. and was snared by the scammers net. I don't know if they were compensated. I suspect not.

As a consequence, the estate agent shut their offices for several weeks while a new system was put in place.

We made the payment in person at the estate agents bank after checking the credentials of the account with the bank manager.

In Australia Property is now settled by computer, not like in the past where the conveyancing Layers for the parties concerned sat around a table. and exchanged documents.

Our lawyer who conducted the final settlement told us that many lawyers and other businesses that handle cash had also been hacked in a similar way. She told me that in spite of automation they always telephone other parties verbally and only use account numbers obtained verbally having confirmed that there is no possibility that the party on the other end of the phone is a scammer.

While the settlement is normally done by a layer in Australia the deposit is usually just done personally, typically about 10%, a substantial amount of cash to loose.

The event also triggered a long investigation by our two banks not because we were affected but because they were trying to set up defences to counter this sort of activity, however in my discussions with them I gleaned that as soon as the cash is out of the country it is almost impossible to recover it.

Naturally we had put a stop on all our bank accounts immediately, We did not know what sort of information the scammers had.

Just because it looks all right? You better look very very very carefully.

Wow, that is scary. Well spotted John.

Thanks John well caught. By the way how is the mill going along.

David

There have been similar incidents in the UK, all involving property exchange so with large sums of money at risk

Brian

Really scary, and the main reason I'm careful not to leak information on the web. Well informed scams are far more likely to work than the easy to spot impersonal emails most of us get. In this case, a business has leaked information, and John's comment 'Our lawyer who conducted the final settlement told us that many lawyers and other businesses that handle cash had also been hacked in a similar way' is cause for concern. It implies IT security isn't being taken seriously on a large scale!

It may be because Australia's Privacy Laws are relaxed compared with GPDR. In particular small businesses aren't held responsible for leaks in the same way as big business. In the UK, a hacked lawyer would expect a heavy fine, a difficult conversation with the Law Society, and a customer seeking damages. The system is imperfect here too, but it can come down hard on negligence. Sounds as if UK law also puts more onus on banks to refund money to defrauded consumers. Simply put, business here should not be conducted in ways that put the customer at risk: businesses are responsible. Agreed there are many imperfections!

If I were an Australian, I'd check out the current rules and complain to my MP if I thought they were inadequate. The usual reason for exempting small businesses from tough requirements is they lobbied saying it would cost them too much money to come up to standard. However, if lots of lawyers are being hacked, perhaps the consumer needs to assert himself. Probably needs a campaign to get things changed, politicians tend to listen to the loudest voices or the biggest donors.

Dave

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The margin line is there because you are adding your text within the post[s] that you are quoting.

MichaelG.

Like you John I don't I don't repost but I thought I would make an exception SEE HERE and look at the last post

But I do agree you have to be on your toes

Coming down the line to you all soon.

A telephone call from a 'government' loft insulation survey inspector.

My old friend in Bracknell gave them £4800 to spray the underside of his roof with , hopefully , fire retardant foam.

I have had the telephone call , they had a polite two word answer.

Afraid that if it had been me receiving the call about the "Government Insulation Scheme", the response might well have been an offer of a job involving sex and travel!

Full marks to John to spotting the scam and avoiding it!

Some of these scammers get quite uptight when you tell them that they've been rumbled. TOUGH!

I never "Press 1 to discuss" or click on the link.

What a nasty suspicious untrusting mind I have!

Howard

Well spotted indeed - but this looks like a variant of a scam reported in UK a year or two back, where the scammers masqueraded as the buyer's solicitor and emailed the buyer a new bank account number for the transfer of funds. I think the scammers managed to get most or all of the purchase price, and I still don't know whether they were caught or whether the buyer got compensation, as they initiated the transaction.

For that reason, when we bought our current house about 6 months back, I verified the account details with our solicitor by phone call at the start of proceedings, and made sure I recognised the voice! Any apparent change would've triggered instant alrm.

Edited By Mick B1 on 13/11/2021 20:34:00

No problem with the margin in this reply, probably because no text has been deleted from Michael's message.

In the earlier reply some text had been deleted and the margin disappeared, I positioned the cursor at the end of Dave in the same way but the margin came back when replying.
I deduce from this the margin although not visible remains in the original Quoted message body.

Emgee

I just click with the mouse button below the quote line and type as normal even after deleting what is not needed in the quoted section. As you can see where I have deleted part of your last post in the quote

Yes Derek, I do the same but for some reason it didn't work with an earlier reply.

Emgee

Sort codes and bank account details can be entered online and checked for validity.

as an example - i recently had some roof work done (costing an arm and a leg.), the roofer wrote down the details for me rather than in an email, i went online and put the details in - the roofer is based in Worksop, the bank account details also came back to Worksop.

there is a simple solution to this type of scam is to send a small amount (say £10) then ask trhe recipient what amount they have received, before sending the rest.