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Hopper21/04/2018 02:10:40
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From our local news:

A MAN has died following a massive blast at his home in Brisbane’s north, with police saying the man was trying to extract hydrogen from water.

Neighbours described the blast as like a “nuclear bomb going off”.

Police last night confirmed a man in his 50s died in an explosion while working on machinery in a shed at Warner.

Police this morning said the man was trying to extract hydrogen from water, using gas-related equipment.

Full story: **LINK**

No details on why or how he was making his own hydrogen but he obviously succeeded in creating enough to cause trouble. Possibly looking at it as a cheap fuel for vehicles? He was described by neighbours as "a tinkerer" so I'm sure many of us could relate.

Thor 🇳🇴21/04/2018 06:42:12
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Hydogen mixed with oxygen (from air) will explode quite violently if an ignition source is present, a small demo here.

Thor

Edited By Thor on 21/04/2018 06:42:31

Ady121/04/2018 09:02:13
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The problem with hydrogen is that there is virtually no safe amount and it will explode in concentrations from 4% to 75% by total volume so you need to have zero leaks

So it explodes from almost no hydrogen in the room to almost replacing all the air in the room

It's pretty amazing stuff and deffo not to be messed with

Ady121/04/2018 09:20:41
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There's an upper and lower explosive limits table here

Even stuff like propane is pretty limited at 2 to 10%

Acetylene is right up there at 2.5 to 100%, one reason it's still used a lot is the temperature it burns at with O2 is around 2500+ degrees and it can be used in steel work

David Standing 121/04/2018 09:39:24
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Oh dear, another Darwin Awards contender! sad

Stewart Mason21/04/2018 10:58:42
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The chap who discovered coal gas, and it's use for domestic lighting lived in my village a long time ago. He blew his house up too, but managed to live. So a fine line between dead tinkerer and clever hero.

The future of technology is still in the hands of the amateur.

Dave Halford21/04/2018 11:46:30
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Posted by Ady1 on 21/04/2018 09:20:41:

There's an upper and lower explosive limits table here

Even stuff like propane is pretty limited at 2 to 10%

Acetylene is right up there at 2.5 to 100%, one reason it's still used a lot is the temperature it burns at with O2 is around 2500+ degrees and it can be used in steel work

Saw a cabin cruiser go up due to propane back in the 60's, by the time the Brigade had found a rowing boat to reach it there was nothing left higher than 4" above the water line..

Ian S C21/04/2018 12:22:31
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A house blew up in Wellington NZ maybe thirty years ago, there was a leaking LPG cylinder in the basement garage, the car was in the garage with the door shut, when the gas reached the critical level, BOOM. It was thought at the inquiry that the electric (non digital) clock in the car caused a minute spark in the relay(?)that operated it. The car was found to be the ignition point.

Ian S C

MW21/04/2018 12:49:07
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That sounds like an awkward way of getting hydrogen, because separating it from the oxygen is hard.

I do know a much easier way of getting hydrogen, but I wont say it here. 

Pure hydrogen is atmospherically rare because the lighter gas is simply displaced and drifts out of the atmosphere. 

I wonder if he was trying to make some form of hydrogen torch? This is what they did in the days before LPG's.

Obvious warnings aside you can't really do much with it because there are superior ways to go about getting a torch, this wouldn't be useful for anything more than an experiment. 

Any store will sell you a butane/propane torch for around £15 so it's very much redundant.

 

Edited By Michael-w on 21/04/2018 12:57:42

Michael Gilligan21/04/2018 12:55:47
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Posted by Michael-w on 21/04/2018 12:49:07:

I wonder if he was trying to make some form of hydrogen torch? This is what they did in the days before LPG's

Obvious warnings aside you can't really do much with it because there are superior ways to go about getting a torch,

Any store will sell you a butane/propane torch for around £15 so it's very much redundant.

.

dont know What goes around comes around [or some-such truism] ...

This is quite a recent development: **LINK**

http://bullfinch-gas.co.uk/blowtorches/safeflame

MichaelG.

MW21/04/2018 13:00:33
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Posted by Michael Gilligan on 21/04/2018 12:55:47

dont know What goes around comes around [or some-such truism] ...

This is quite a recent development: **LINK**

Oh, very interesting, thanks.

I personally have a MAPP gas (remake) + oxygen torch, which is kind of similar but not quite as advanced as that. 

Edited By Michael-w on 21/04/2018 13:01:47

vintagengineer21/04/2018 13:13:36
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Propane is a welling gas so should not be stored below ground level! 

Hydrogen is very easy to produce, just pass an electric current through water!

 

Edited By vintagengineer on 21/04/2018 13:14:48

Speedy Builder521/04/2018 13:29:11
2878 forum posts
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Michael-W, what a shame the Bullfinch torch could not produce its own electricity by using some of the gas to generate electricity, the only consumed product being water. I can't think why schools would be interested as the equipment does not come cheap.
BobH

Neil Wyatt21/04/2018 14:05:39
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A shame for the poor chap and his family, but fortunate his neighbours were OK.

I wonder how and why he was storing the gas? Perhaps he was trying to make some form of balloon/airship model?

Every UK schoolkid has used various ways to make hydrogen gas, and knows you can make it a test tube of it 'pop' with a lit splint.

Neil

Bazyle21/04/2018 14:06:29
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At school some of the 6th formers gave a fun science demo that included making H2 and blowing it into a soap bubble which was ignited and just flared. Then they used H2 +O from electrolysis and that bubble made a splendid bang.
Pre ww2 my great uncle contracted with his mother to provide coal gas when they moved into the countryside. The shed burned down after a few weeks but very enterprising.

Neil Wyatt21/04/2018 14:07:49
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Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 21/04/2018 13:29:11:

Michael-W, what a shame the Bullfinch torch could not produce its own electricity by using some of the gas to generate electricity, the only consumed product being water. I can't think why schools would be interested as the equipment does not come cheap.
BobH

Egad!

You have solved the oil crisis and climate change at a stroke

Ian Hewson21/04/2018 14:20:15
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Might have when you were at school Neil, the one I went to in the 50s could not even manage the test tubes let alone any experiments.

Only started to learn anything after I left primary school and started an apprenticeship, we had been written off at 15.

Russell Eberhardt21/04/2018 14:34:30
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Posted by Neil Wyatt on 21/04/2018 14:05:39:

Every UK schoolkid has used various ways to make hydrogen gas, and knows you can make it a test tube of it 'pop' with a lit splint.

When I was at school we had, for a short time, a chemistry teacher who tried that demonstration but, instead of collecting the hydrogen in a gas jar used a narrow necked flask. You can guess the result, showering the front row of the class with glass fragments!surprise

Russell

Another JohnS21/04/2018 14:35:33
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Posted by Michael-w on 21/04/2018 12:49:07:

That sounds like an awkward way of getting hydrogen, because separating it from the oxygen is hard.

I do know a much easier way of getting hydrogen, but I wont say it here.

It's not the NASA way, is it? That way of getting hydrogen will certainly not save the planet, global-warming wise.

They found it much cheaper than electrolysis, for the closet experimenters here.

duncan webster21/04/2018 14:41:46
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Posted by vintagengineer on 21/04/2018 13:13:36:

Propane is a welling gas so should not be stored below ground level!

Hydrogen is very easy to produce, just pass an electric current through water!

 

Edited By vintagengineer on 21/04/2018 13:14:48

It might be worthwhile expanding on this, propane being heavier than air will sit on the floor and not disperse through open windows etc. Hydrogen is very light and diffuses readily, so buildings where hydrogen is generated and stored should have a vent right in the apex of the roof. I guess many of us have propane bottles in our workshops, not really a good idea. If my workshop wasn't at the front of the house I'd keep the bottle outside, but I fear it would dissappear overnight. If you've ever seen a propane bottle exploding in a fire (a Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion **LINK** ) you'd keep it outside! Thought, must check my house insurance to see if it says anything about gas bottles.

Edited By duncan webster on 21/04/2018 14:42:31

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