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This months MEW are 3 CNC features two too many
| john swift 1 | 16/05/2011 17:05:58 |
 318 forum posts 183 photos | Hi Hansrudolf , you are correct , a download page for G codes etc. is the only way to go
I subscribed to several magazines in PDF format
for many years now , projects using PIC chips for instance
the software and PCB designs have been made available to download
no I am not looking for M.E.W. to turn into another electronic magazine
but electronics is an integral part of many machines now
Its been a bonus for me that CNC projects , like buses , have come in threes this month
as I intent to build a cnc machine when I can
that said ,provided over the year ,the mix of articles is not too one sided , it should not be not a problem to all readers
I could argue that because I have a mini lathe
projects for Myford lathes are no use to me , but thats not true
it does not stop me from adapting some of the ideas does it ?
but I did notice the magazine is only 64 pages not 68 as normal !
perhaps the page count should be going up to keep every one happy ???
John
Edited By john swift 1 on 16/05/2011 17:07:55 |
| Tony Jeffree | 16/05/2011 17:10:27 |
 569 forum posts 20 photos | Posted by blowlamp on 14/05/2011 12:37:50: By the way, can I ask the Luddites how they're managing to post their replies on this forum with their chalkboards, while I'm having to use a computer to write mine? Chalkboards?!?! Luxury...all we had was a sand box & a stick... Regards, Tony |
| David Clark 1 | 16/05/2011 17:14:51 |
 3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles | Hi There
I have no budget to put program code onto the website.
I have a certain amount to pay for magazine artilces only.
regards david
|
| Paul Boscott | 16/05/2011 18:17:19 |
 99 forum posts 21 photos | Model Engineer has always showcased the latest technology I see no reason the Model Engineers Workshop should not follow in that tradition.
Paul |
| Tony Jeffree | 16/05/2011 18:20:40 |
569 forum posts 20 photos | Posted by Paul Boscott on 16/05/2011 18:17:19: Model Engineer has always showcased the latest technology I see no reason the Model Engineers Workshop should not follow in that tradition. Paul Paul - Couldn't agree more. Regards, Tony |
| magpie | 16/05/2011 20:34:17 |
 508 forum posts 98 photos | Blimey what a load of woffel. One bloke who, not so long ago started a thread complaining about going OT., has lots of posts on here with hardly a mention of CNC in MEW but we now know how clever he is !!!!!!!! Do'nt we? |
| blowlamp | 16/05/2011 21:11:52 |
 1885 forum posts 111 photos | Posted by David Clark 1 on 16/05/2011 17:14:51:
Hi There
I have no budget to put program code onto the website.
I have a certain amount to pay for magazine artilces only.
regards david
David.
Why do you need a budget to put downloads on the website - do you mean for royalties?
Martin. |
| John Stevenson | 16/05/2011 21:21:28 |
 5068 forum posts 3 photos | I'd like to address a few points put forward in this thread. Firstly I agree that three items in a thin edition of the mag is going too far and I am a big supporter of CNC. Two of these articles are close to finishing so I'm sure the last one could have waited. CNC is here to stay because I work closely with the development of the Sieg machines plus demonstrating these at shows and installing them as well I get to see a greater spectrum than many here. Having been asked the same questions over and over again you get an idea of where it is going. Most people who buy these or make them with support from others have no formal engineering training, in fact most come from office jobs where computers do not faze them. The majority also view these as a tool, for them this tool is to assist them in producing a component for a use, more the reward than the journey. For many it is there to assist another hobby, usually their main one like vintage vehicles etc. Believe it or not many have not heard of MEW or ME or even know the shows exist as they don't build models. I feel the Americans have a better grasp of the situation with their magazines called Home Shop Machinist and Projects in Metal Ours have the word Model in the title implying that it's all about models. Fine ME is about models but why does a workshop based at home have to be about models ? Many of my friends have home workshops, none build models and more to the point, none take the magazine. I recently installed the larger KX3 CNC mill into a young ladies quite well equipped workshop near London. She had never heard of ME or MEW and was into prototyping various ideas. With a training in web design she soon picked up the operation and had no formal manual training at all. At the recent Harrogate show two new experiences stood out. The first one was a young lad who came up and asked if he could ask some questions without being laughed at . He had built a router out of MDF, round rod and driven by timing belts. He was having trouble setting Mach3 , the controller software up. I went thru it with him and sorted him out. He thanked me and as he was leaving I called him back and asked his age, he was 14. These are the people we need to nurture if the hobby is to go on, it may not go on the same way as before but that's evolution. The first ME's were also called Amateur Electrician so what has changed? they made their own electric motors for machines because they were not available reasonable off the shelf. The second experience was from a gentleman close to retiring from the heating trade who was interested in getting into CNC but wanted more instruction in it before making the plunge. There are no night school classes and from what I can see only MEW and Digital Machinist in the US at 4 copies per year are close to filling this gap. David can only print what he is given, the fact that these articles were submitted means there are people out there as with all articles you have the choice to read them or not. Three in one issue is a bit much but ME has been carrying 3 to 5 articles on steam loco's for years and it's called Model Engineer not Model Locomotive but I don't see the flat earth society getting wound up over that. As a previous poster has said you want to see something dear to your interest then submit an article or shut up. At the first Ascot meeting we did a talk on why to choose CNC. this talk which was done twice a day for two days and once on the Sunday was filled to capacity and had people standing outside the screens. This talk and the one by Chris Vine on painting a loco were the only ones that were full to capacity. John S. [Edit] Needless to say there will be some spelling and grammatical mistakes in this text, just so you know before posting to tell me, I don't give a rat's arse.............. Edited By John Stevenson on 16/05/2011 21:23:24 |
| john swift 1 | 16/05/2011 22:23:39 |
318 forum posts 183 photos | Hi John
I think your example of the 14 year old and his MDF CNC router
is a good sign that our hobby has a future as long as it evolves( engineering not just CNC)
perhaps its time to rebrand M.E.W as "Engineers Workshop" and advertise in other periodicals to increase sales ,not that I'd expect it to happen just now
John
|
| ady | 16/05/2011 23:27:13 |
| 612 forum posts 50 photos | A lot of these kids are on youtube, searching with "cnc router" will give you a look at how many are out there, and an awful lot are homemade units. There are a lot of them out there because there is a natural progression from pure computer programming, leading to an interest in cnc work and sometimes lathes. Programming, while amazing, can eventually become unfulfilling in itself and getting it to do "something real and useful" has great appeal to many. That's the route I took before stumbling into lathework. CNC makes the jump from the computer to the physical world possible and nearly every kid has a pooter nowadays. |
| NJH | 17/05/2011 00:17:11 |
 2314 forum posts 139 photos | John All your points are quite valid. There is nothing wrong with an interest or even an obsession with CNC. This thread is about the number of articles about CNC in MEW issue 177. I order my copy from my local newsagent and I accept that not every item will appeal to me. As this is ordered I take it whatever the contents. If I purchased the magazine depending on it's contents I would not have picked up this issue. Now, hopefully, this level of penetration will be a rare occurance but, if not, then I will cancel the reservation and move to a policy of buying only issues of interest. If there is such a prepoderence of CNC articles that the bias of the magazine is now slanted that way then, for the future of the publication, it must be hoped that that there are also sufficient interested to purchase and keep it going. It would seem from this thread however that there are many who don't feature such interest in their workshop activities. I suggest that this is just as valid a position. They do seem however to have received considerable abuse here. As I previously posted, this forum cannot be considered as representative of the readership as a whole - neither though is the attendance at lectures / demonstrations at exhibitions. I trust a more accurate result may be gleaned from the readers survey - if folk don't respond then they must accept an outcome based on the opinions of those that do. Finally you say :- ( if ) "you want to see something dear to your interest then submit an article or shut up." Not everyone has the experience or perhaps the ability to write articles but surely every purchaser has a right to express their preferences and for these to be considered when building the magazine? If not then the future for the publication truely is bleak. Regards Norman |
| confused.eng | 17/05/2011 00:22:52 |
| 19 forum posts 2 photos | CNC, love it or hate it, its here to stay even in the 'model' engineer's workshop. As an automation engineer designing control systems for various pieces of industrial equipment it is nice to see how the other side does things. Its 'so yesterday', everything is stepper control. No AC/DC brushless servo. No Linear motors. No hydraulic servo. No distributed servo networks. Nice simple steppers. I have only just got into the mechanical side of engineering, learning to use the lathe and milling machine to my apprentice trained employee's horror. MEW has been great at giving me insight into the basics, but to me at the moment a lump of metal is a lump of metal. How about an article or two on properties of metals, what each is used for, merits and failures under certain applications etc. I think an article something like this was proposed in another thread and was shouted down. We all want something different from the magazine. I do like the printouts of the 'G' code though, very retro!. Reminds me of my Vic20 days. From my experience though, 'G' code is very machine and implementation dependant as some of the codes are customised to perform specific functions on the machine. Printing 'G' code in the magazine is bit like the old computer days when the computer magazines used to print multiple versions of the same program for all the different computers out there, BBC 'A', BBC 'B', BBC Electron, C64, Spectrum, Amstrad, Dragon, Oric, Apple II, TRS80 etc. Maybe not 3 articles per issue. One or two now and then, but don't bother with the 'G' code. And please, we don't all have Myford lathes. What about articles for other makes and models. Ok, I know I can adapt the designs but it would be nice to know what other people out there are using. Ok, sorry, rant over. |
| confused.eng | 17/05/2011 00:28:28 |
| 19 forum posts 2 photos | I agree with John, maybe MEW should be renamed Engineer's Workshop as most of the articles in it don't have much to do with models and from reading other posts on the forums, a lot of the post seem to be about things other than models. More, a how do I do..... Or, how about 'Weekend Engineer's Workshop' Any excuse to avoid SWMBO |
| John Stevenson | 17/05/2011 01:04:20 |
5068 forum posts 3 photos | Norman, I did actually agree with you 3 articles is too much for one issue. Two of them finish shortly so the last one could have waited. There are also issues in how often articles are repeated, take the CNC conversion of the Myford lathe, it was not too long ago that Tony Jeffree did the same conversion. In my mind slightly better. This current built is described in the initial description as retaining the gearbox so he can manually cut threads. retaining the power cross feed for facing and I have to wonder then why bother to add the CNC on in the first place. John S. |
| Tony Jeffree | 17/05/2011 10:12:16 |
569 forum posts 20 photos | Just to get things into perspective...a few stats from the issue in question. There were 11 items listed in the contents, of which 3 were CNC out of 8 items that were practical/constructional articles as opposed to miscellaneous stuff like Scribe a Line. So 27% of the articles were CNC, or 37% of the practical/constructional articles. There were approximately 25 pages of miscellaneous stuff (front cover, ads, contents page...etc) out of 64 pages of magazine, so 39 pages of readable content. 13 of those (33%) were about CNC. So depending on what measure you take (number of articles or number of pages, etc.) approximately 1/3 of the mag was about CNC. So yes, as John S and the original poster observe, this issue had more than its fair share of CNC; however, as I have already commented, no CNC articles at all in the mag would be far too few. What no-one has mentioned so far in this thread (although I have pointed it out in the thread titeld "An Accurate CNC 4th Axis...?") is that one of those articles, while nicely written and presented, describes a CNC device whose application to the real world of CNC machining will be very limited indeed, and in reality, of use only to those that enjoy machining parts out of materials no harder than high tensile cotage cheese. That article has been serialised in 2 issues so far, and there seems to be at least one more to come; all I can hope is that no-one has started building to the design as described, because they are highly likely to be wasting their time and money if they do. I have subscribed to MEW for a good number of years now, and have a complete set of issues from the first issue published. This is the first time that I can remember that I have come across an article in the mag that was just plain wrong-headed; there have been plenty of articles over the years, and in pretty much every issue for that matter, that don't particularly appeal to me, but at least, untill now, I can't think of another example of something that shouldn't have been published regardless of personal taste. What disturbs me more is that when I pointed this out to our Editor, his response was that he would have no articles if he rejected everything that he didn't agree with. That is all very well, but the magazine does its readers a dis-service, and destroys its own reputation, if it encourages its readers to make things that are, at the end of the day, badly thought out and inappropriate for their purpose. Regards, Tony |
| David Clark 1 | 17/05/2011 11:07:14 |
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles | Hi There
If you read the article, you will find it mentions Tony's article but states that the article is about the ML7, not about the Super 7.
regards david
|
| David Clark 1 | 17/05/2011 11:09:49 |
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles | Hi Blowlamp
Contributors will need paying for their articles.
If we put part of the article on the website such as G codes etc there is no budget for it.
regards david
|
| Gordon W | 17/05/2011 11:09:54 |
| 2011 forum posts | The survey results will be meaningless in any practical sense, the respondents will be relatively prosperous with time or their hands, or have there own axe to grind. |
| David Clark 1 | 17/05/2011 11:10:57 |
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles | Hi Confused.
Model Engineers' Workshop has never included articles on models.
Maybe it should?
regards David
|
| NJH | 17/05/2011 11:26:07 |
2314 forum posts 139 photos | How so Gordon? The survey takes about 5 min to fill in, the cost is the price of an envelope and stamp and everyone has their own axe to grind! The result gives the opinions of those people who can be bothered to spend this little time and money. Those who don't respond can't really expect their views to be taken into account as no one else knows what they are! Cheers Norman Edited By NJH on 17/05/2011 11:26:49 |
This thread is closed.
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All Forum Topics > Model Engineers' Workshop. > This months MEW are 3 CNC features two too many