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A Challenge - How Would You Machine This Part?

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blister	18/06/2011 20:43:44
28 forum posts 3 photos	Posted by Anthony Knights on 08/06/2011 18:46:11: According to Mr Stepenson all you need to do is create an image in a suitable computer program, send this to your CNC machine, and it will churn it out for you. How interesting. I really love sitting in front of a computer screen. I suppose the next technological advance, will be to have a robot which assembles all the bits which your CNC machine makes. You can then spend even longer on the computer making assembly drawings. The ultimate techological advance will of course be the Virtual Engineering Workshop. Put on the suit and helmet, choose all the machinery you would love to own but can't afford and away you go. Four years to make a model traction engine? With this program you can make one in the morning and drive it in the afternoon. Before anyone else say it, I've probably watched "The Matrix" too many times. Well said Anthony, I don't think those comments are from watching 'The Matrix' too many times but from seeing what a CNC can do. The way engineering is going at the moment, the greatest skill required in the future will be song selection on your Ipod and the safe insertion of earphones into your ears while you watch the relevant machines 'pump' out a model for you. I can only imagine the sense of fulfillment in a job well done when we go down that path. I guess I am a bit 'Old School' but can remember scoffing at the older machinists when I was an apprentice who would try to impress on me that the only way to machine with any skill was by using internal and external calipers. Funny thing is I use calipers at work for demonstration purposes to show people "How it used to be done". I guess in the not too distant future someone will be demonstrating machining without using a CNC Yours ( in anticipation of a tirade of vehement harangue from the CNCers) Phil
John Stevenson	18/06/2011 21:18:23
5068 forum posts 3 photos	Posted by Anthony Knights on 08/06/2011 18:46:11: According to Mr Stepenson all you need to do is create an image in a suitable computer program, send this to your CNC machine, and it will churn it out for you. How interesting. I really love sitting in front of a computer screen. I suppose the next technological advance, will be to have a robot which assembles all the bits which your CNC machine makes. You can then spend even longer on the computer making assembly drawings. The ultimate techological advance will of course be the Virtual Engineering Workshop. Put on the suit and helmet, choose all the machinery you would love to own but can't afford and away you go. Four years to make a model traction engine? With this program you can make one in the morning and drive it in the afternoon. Before anyone else say it, I've probably watched "The Matrix" too many times. No not really you have to take it all into context on what you are doing. Whilst I'm a big believer in that CNC has a place in the home workshop it's not at the expense of all CNC This week I have done 24 three HP electric motor conversions where the shaft has to be turned down and the keyway deepened plus making 24 steel conversion plates up out of 10mm thick laser blanks and guess what ? All done on manual machines you will find in the average larger workshop. Now if I had just one of these to do. Can you just imagine what tooling and jigs would be needed for a job like this ? Six speed gearbox selector drums for racing motorcycles BTW, and less than 3 hours work. John S. Edited By John Stevenson on 18/06/2011 21:19:39
blister	19/06/2011 00:18:09
28 forum posts 3 photos	Hi John, are you saying that if you 'did' just have one to do like most of us 'Model Engineers' as opposed to 'Production Engineers, you would not bother, or would it be a challenge to figure out the best possible way to get the job done, 'one off ' as we quite often have to. The point being that excercising the mind to achieve success is better than "dumbing down" and letting the machine think for us. ps I don't believe you own at least (according to the photograph) 11 racing motorcycles or is that 'paid work' as opposed to a hobby. Kindest regards, Phil
John Stevenson	19/06/2011 00:48:07
5068 forum posts 3 photos	Phil. I think it all depends on how you look at the finished job. The closest I came to doing something like the above but manually was when I was racing and wanted some oil pump plungers for the old Pilgrim pumps. These had one cam track on them that caused the plunger to oscillate backwards and forwards as it was driven. Being very much pre CNC I scratched my head and came up with a swash plate follower that was literally a large disk welded on an angle to a shaft, a follower dog then pushed the new plunder over in a very crude 4th axis whilst I milled the groove. For me even though it worked I resented the time taken to achieve this as my main interest was getting the bike running again, not how to get it running again. If I had have had access to CNC at this point in time I would have used it in a heartbeat as for me it was all about the reward, not the journey. I don't regard it as dumbing down, in fact on those cams in the picture there is far more work in making sure all the dogs are in the correct point and space in time than actually doing the job. Some of the engagement dogs miss by 10 thou whilst shifting. Although paid, I do regard it as a hobby as it's not my normal line of work and I find these sort of jobs interesting and only take them on if interested. There are some very lucrative jobs in the vintage movement if you can spot them, especially where the owners have more money than sense. John S.
Andrew Johnston	19/06/2011 19:20:30
7061 forum posts 719 photos	Phil: You won't get any rude comments from me; if you don't want to use CNC that's fine by me. Steve: The comment on over-engineering was a gentle nudge at an earlier respondent, who threw his teddy out of the pram, turned the pram over, and then stomped off. I didn't want to overfill the post with pictures, so it might have looked a bit misleading. The gear teeth were roughed out with a 4mm ball nose cutter, as shown. That was followed by a quick pass with a 3mm ball nose cutter to clean out the small end, and then a final pass with fine stepover with a 2mm ball nose cutter. The final gears as shown are straight off the machine tool, apart from a little deburring of the tooth ends where I machined the tapers on a (manual) lathe. The comment on the steering gear is a project in hand. The drawings I have are completely inadequate. They only say that the worm is two start, 0.5" pitch and give the OD and a lead angle. The worm wheel simply says 22 teeth and gives an OD. The supplier I get my castings from uses a helical spur gear for the worm wheel, which is of course perfectly adequate, if not prototypical. But I got to thinking (dangerous I know), could I make a proper hob and consequently make a proper worm wheel. Like everybody else I've made worm wheels using a tap as a hob, but I've never made one using a 'proper' hob. Once I've checked my maths and tidied up the 3D models I'll start another thread. Regards, Andrew
Steve Withnell	19/06/2011 19:39:25
858 forum posts 215 photos	Posted by Andrew Johnston on 19/06/2011 19:20:30: I didn't want to overfill the post with pictures, so it might have looked a bit misleading. The gear teeth were roughed out with a 4mm ball nose cutter, as shown. That was followed by a quick pass with a 3mm ball nose cutter to clean out the small end, and then a final pass with fine stepover with a 2mm ball nose cutter. The final gears as shown are straight off the machine tool, apart from a little deburring of the tooth ends where I machined the tapers on a (manual) lathe. snipped> Looks very impressive Andrew ...I really must get organised and have a run at CNC milling, my current project cries out for it. Steve
blister	19/06/2011 21:32:15
28 forum posts 3 photos	Posted by Andrew Johnston on 19/06/2011 19:20:30: Phil: You won't get any rude comments from me; if you don't want to use CNC that's fine by me. Andrew, I can't for the life of me find where I wrote that I don't want to use CNC's. It's odd because I find them fascinating and shall continue to harrass my boss to get us one. In the meantime I will continue to learn as much as I can about them. You may have missed my point. Regards, Phil
blister	19/06/2011 21:39:28
28 forum posts 3 photos	Hi John (Stevenson) Thanks for the excellent response. I had never looked at it like that before. You now have me considering a small CNC for my home workshop to the point where it almost shot straight to the 'Must Purchase' list. It did make it to the 'When I get the money' List though Regards, Phil
Andrew Johnston	24/09/2011 10:46:43
7061 forum posts 719 photos	Finally, after delays and interruptions due to having to work for a living, the complete set of bevel gears has been finished in cast iron. Due to problems with the drawings, I threw away the castings for the bevel gears and machined them from cast iron bar. The spur gears were part of the original casting. The only thing left to do is cut a keyway in one of the bevel gears. It's a bit of bottom clenching job swinging the ram round on the Bridgeport, so I'll do it in one big session when I have other items ready that need keyways. Regards, Andrew
KWIL	24/09/2011 12:00:07
3681 forum posts 70 photos	Andrew, Sample fully hobbed wormwheel for your enjoyment, material PB, 3.5" dia or thereabouts. Must confess I provided the blank and a friend used his hobbing machine! K
Springbok	25/09/2011 04:06:34
879 forum posts 34 photos	A friend from Japan sent me this Email Legarding what you are looking at I can make thousands of these items velly cheaply and incluse a fully operatonal manual. toung in cheek smile it could get worse she indoors could ask you to do some work in the house.........
Andrew Johnston	26/09/2011 11:33:52
7061 forum posts 719 photos	KWIL: Looks a lovely job; I just hope my worm and worm wheel look as good. I don't have a hobbing machine, so will be relying on gashing and then free hobbing. But I must finish the differentials first. Springbok: I hardly think 'er indoors is likely to ask me to do something in the house, when the kitchen looks like this! Andrew
Phil P	26/09/2011 12:55:11
851 forum posts 206 photos	That is absolutely disgusting and not very hygenic at all. I really cannot believe some people and the things they do. Do you not realise that having plantpots on your worktop is not a good idea. Phil
blowlamp	26/09/2011 13:43:22
1885 forum posts 111 photos	Agreed Phil. Look at the ridiculous way that food resides on the worktop, whilst precious metal has to make do with the floor. A classic case of mistaken priorities - I'm genuinely shocked Martin. Edited By blowlamp on 26/09/2011 13:53:31
Nicholas Farr	27/09/2011 07:05:18
3988 forum posts 1799 photos	Hi Andrew, I have to agree that your kitchen is just shame-full, as Martin has said, all that precious metal relegated to the floor, not to mention the elf and safety issues of bending down to pick it up. Have you not considered putting more units with bigger worktops in. Regards Nick.
JasonB	27/09/2011 17:44:27
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	The way you have the parts laid out is a serious waste of space, you should consider combining the engines and the tabel into one unit that even her in doors will be happy to have in the house. J
Stub Mandrel	01/10/2011 20:25:46
4318 forum posts 291 photos 1 articles	Here's one I made earlier (without the benefit of CNC...) above the smaller gear before being bored and parted off, below the final pair. Neil
Andrew Johnston	01/10/2011 23:12:19
7061 forum posts 719 photos	I'll have you know the plants were all of the edible variety. Turns out that the courgettes were a bit of a disaster, but the peppers and chillies that are in the picture are still going strong in the greenhouse. Great in a salad and useful to give a curry a bit of zip! Main problem with 'elf 'n' safety is that I'm not strong enough to lift the boilers onto the worktop. It was bad enough getting them out of the car and into the kitchen, even with the help of my neighbour and his son, plus a decent sack trolley. I'm not even going to show the tool and measuring equipment store; sorry I mean the dining room. Neil: Gears made using the parallel depth tooth method I assume? I'm planning to use the same to make the mitre gears for the governors on the traction engine. Partly because they'll be much too small to be practical by CNC and partly because I haven't used the method before, so it will be instructive. Regards, Andrew
Ian S C	02/10/2011 12:10:56
7468 forum posts 230 photos	Neil, I'm looking for a pair of gears just like that, the last two I hadcame from some WW2 surplus equipment. Do you reckon I could do a lash up job with a fly cutter? Ian S C
Stub Mandrel	02/10/2011 19:40:08
4318 forum posts 291 photos 1 articles	Hi Ian, No reason why not - the teeth on that pair are just over a millimeter long and they run together nicely, although when I've made bevels a bit bigger they came out even better. There's nothing wrong with parallel depth bevels, I understand they were much used in WWII as it reduced the demand on specialist equipment. I find they run nice and smoothly. I use Ivan Law's method, I might write up the procedure for an article. Neil

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