Hey you! What lathe? Why?

In MEW299, an article of mine was published which in addition to the other stuff I covered, gave an insight into how I ended up with the Warco 220. What that article didn't do, was to go into, in any real depth, just how I came to buy the Warco. Hopefully, this will flesh out that article, and perhaps give you some things to think about.

I had actually used a lathe, a Portass, at school, but not on metalwork so in reality, I didn't know that much about their capabilities, or even their requirements when I started down this trail. For instance, I knew nothing about rigidity and the concomitant weight, hence the idea of a home-made lathe from pieces of bent metal was a non-starter even before I attempted it. Similarly, whilst the Unimat 1 would, eventually, have done what I wanted, power requirements was another feature about which I was blissfully ignorant. Unfortunately, the Unimat 1 had something like a 15W motor, far too low in reality! Indeed, you could say that the Hobbymat was the first proper lathe which had something like a reasonable amount of power and was of a suitably appropriate weight. But it eventually proved to be too small. Not only that, but its speed ranges were somewhat on the high side - 250, 500, 1000, 2000, rpm. I have a book, "Using the Small Lathe", by L.C. Mason in which he states that by and large, the lower speeds are generally the more useful: he, of course, was talking about the Myford he owned with a speed range of, I think, down to 37 rpm.

Although the Hobbymat was a good machine for me to learn on, what I eventually discovered was that there was a large casting flaw in the headstock, hidden under a permanently attached instruction plate. That machine was exchanged by the importers. The replacement machine was eventually shown to be cutting very slightly convex. At least, that's what I thought at the time - it could, of course, be my technique that was wrong especially as I was still in the first few years of lathe ownership when it could be said that I didn't really know what I was doing. Perhaps that still applies today?

But then onto the 220. By now, I knew that I simply did not know enough to be able to buy a good second hand machine, and I was not prepared to risk £100's on something that might be duff, and so I decided on new. Of course, there was also the thought about not wanting to import something into a residential estate which could be described as a small industrial machine which rather restricted my choice to lathes for the hobby market. I also knew that I wanted a larger machine. So I went through the mill of obtaining and comparing specifications and prices. Remember that in 1994, we did not have the variety of imports that we have today. I even wrote to ME (no MEW or website back then) and telephoned Tubal Cain/T.D. Walshaw. Predictably Walshaw recommended a refurbished Myford (who refused to take the Hobbymat in part exchange unless I bought new) whilst the only thing I can remember from the letter in ME was "Buy-Buy before Bye-Bye", a comment based on the quantity of equipment being offered for sale due to death.

And so, I ended up with the 220. Some people could not get on with it, and yes it does have its problems, but for my purposes it has proved satisfactory and over the years I have learnt how to overcome those problems. Would I buy one today? No! Knowing what I know now, would I have bought one back in 1994. Probably not as the 918 despite its poorer specification, is probably a better machine, certainly it, and its successors, are still available whilst the 220 is not. But with the knowledge, or more correctly lack of knowledge, I had back then, I would still have bought the 220.

What features do I find most useful. All of them! Ok, that is somewhat cynical. Or is it sarcastic. I never know the difference. Anyway, since buying the lathe, I've done all sorts of things on it so all the features have been used. I don't have a gearbox, so I do have to mess about with oily, geasy, gearwheels etc so a gearbox might be handy. But in reality, I don't do that much screwcutting, and in any case, a gearbox does not cover all possible combinations of threads that a machine such as mine can do. What about power cross-feed. Now that might be nice to have, or is it? Power longitudinal feed is essential, but cross-feed? Maximum diameter on mine is 200mm over the bed, or about 130mm over the saddle so in general, maximum cross-feed is perhaps 65mm. Is that too much for smooth manual facing? Dunno. I do tend to use the tailstock a lot for drilling and tapping so that feature is essential. There is a ring of 12 holes in the mandrel flange. Supposedly for basic indexing. Mostly used as a temporary lock for the mandrel so probably of little use. I don't have a cross-slide lock and have wished for one many times. (An aquaintence with the same lathe uses a nylon screw down one of the tapped holes on the cross-slide for this purpose.)

Well, there we are, I'll finish with a comment from L.C.Mason from the same book mentioned above: "So whether it is a real tiddler or a factory-size toolroom job, acquire a lathe somehow. You'll have lifelong pleasure from it!"

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

Ah yes! I pimped my turns:

Ah yes! I've been looking for a mill for years

Pimped this jig borer meanwhile. But I _need_ a mill.

Once you have one, you can't get enough of them. Another Pultra. A Pultra '10' which is a smaller 8mm. That makes sense!?

Please accept my tuppence worth along with all the above much more valuable advice.

I bought a Craftsman longbed because I had no idea what I wanted to do [still not sure !] but because it seemed big enough to do anything that might come along.

I dont make models [dont know how, and I have a short fuse ] but I found that machine perfect for doing running repairs, making odd bits and pieces and passing many a happy hour rather than looking at the crap on TV.

My advice would be to buy something, just to get started and then see where you want to go. You can always sell on and upgrade.

I dont make models [dont know how, and I have a short fuse ] but I found that machine perfect for doing running repairs, making odd bits and pieces and passing many a happy hour rather than looking at the crap on TV.

Def agree with that with my machines, although I can be patient - except that we threw out the goggle box years ago.🙂

A 1927 7"centre height Drummond because it was going for £20 with accessories, line shaft and ancient motor and I was a hard up apprentice. For about sixty years this flat belt machine, which can easily swing 18" in the removable section gap bed, has been able to accurately machine everything I wanted to do for models and car, motorbike and old machinery restoration. I have recently been given a very rusty old 3 1/2" flat belt Drummond which I have resurrected and now use for small parts; this is a nice machine too. Colin

ps I would rather not be known as "hey you"

"Of course, there was also the thought about not wanting to import something into a residential estate which could be described as a small industrial machine which rather restricted my choice to lathes for the hobby market."

I have to say that this comment by Peter G. Shaw for me raised a wry smile! Whilst I don't live on an estate I certainly live in a residential area and I hope I have every consideration for other residents, but I am now just wondering what they might say if they knew I had a Jones & Shipman 1310 cylindrical grinder at the back of my attached garage alongside a Colchester Bantam and an Elliot 10M. Nobody has actually said anything about it yet or the two pre-cast concrete sheds at the bottom of the garden that contain between them three lathes, a J & S 540 surface grinder and three milling machines of light industrial size together with a few other bits and pieces that could be considered to be above pure model making requirements.

It actually never crossed my mind that any other resident could have any reason to object to what I did within the boundaries of my own property as long as it did not cause any nuisance. Maybe I have been wrong for all these years?

Edited By Chris Crew on 07/02/2021 19:58:07

Edited By Chris Crew on 07/02/2021 19:58:46

Chris -

The only sensible objections they'd have would be disturbance, most likely by noise, though if they knew you had all this gear they might think you are running a business there.

Jack Hobson -

The very same thing! Except my little watchmaker's lathe came in a neat little cardboard box with the maker's name on it, and no more tooling than a pair of dead-centres; and I did not treat it to a lovely wooden case.

I forget how I came by it - either from someone at work or a second-hand shop.

I have a BCA jig-borer, and am presently making for it, holders for my Myford chucks. (Threaded adaptor from RDG Tooling, mounted on a disc with T-bolt holes.)

Chris

I used to live in a nice little road with great neighbours, unfortunately five doors away lived an old couple who appear to hate everyone and everything. Complaining to the council about fence heights ,extensions- even if they couldn't see them from their house, just about everything. One day I had a visit from an official ,there having been a complaint that I was running a business from home, into the workshop with ML7, drilling machine, part finished loco on bench. After tea and a pleasant chat about his OO gauge layout, said official went away happy. Shortly after I received a visit from a man with a noise meter, there had been a complaint about the deafening noise from my machinery, he set up his meter a few metres outside the workshop, took an ambient noise reading and asked me to switch the lathe on, after I came out of the workshop he said," I need the machines to be running" to which I replied they are! so he went away happy the ML7 didn't even register on the machine. After that it was two very serious policemen who came round , asking about the workshop and what I did in it, I showed them round and immediately the atmosphere changed, " we had a complaint that you were making firearm parts for the IRA" ( it was the 80's) they also went away happy, but I understand had a word with said neighbour about wasting police time. After that i had no more problems, I believe they transferred their complaints to someone who was building an extension. From speaking to the first official you can have virtually any machinery or equiplment you want as long as there is no nuisance to others or breach of planning the authorities are quite ok and will leave you alone. He also said that the majority of complaints came from residents objecting to people carrying out car repairs at home as a sideline business, which he said was very common at the time.

Dave

Chris & others,

At about, or more likely shortly before, I was looking into a larger lathe, there were a few articles in ME about this subject, the end result, as I understand it, being that yes, you can do whatever you wish in/on your private property until such time as the local council receives a complaint at which point said council is legally obliged to investigate.

In my case, my 13 year old daughter had been, shall we say, somewhat cheeky to a neighbour (and we all know just what 13 year old girls can be like), plus my elder son out walking our dog along an unmade up lane had been told off by a relation of the neighbour and who threatened to shoot the dog on the grounds that he owned the lane and son & dog were trespassing. Needless to say after a conversation with the local council, and the police, to establish exactly where we stood resulted in me making a visit to this person who quickly started talking about shooting with a camera! Hence afterwards, I attempted to at least keep on the right side of the neighbours on our street - which was somewhat awkward when Warco delivered the 220 lathe inside an rather large panel van emblazoned with Warco Machine Tools etc, at 2200 hours! No offence intended to Warco, by the way - that was just the way it happened. Fortunately nothing came of that, but in view of the ME articles, and my run-ins with the neighbour & relatives, I was indeed rather wary.

I should point out that all of my activities took place either at a weekend, or early evening usually ending somewhere between 20:30 and 21:00.

Incidently, shortly after these events and nothing to do with them, and once early retirement became a realistic proposition, we took the opportunity to relocate from that city suburb to our present address on the edge of the Lake District. That being 25 years ago.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 08/02/2021 11:32:50

Chris and others

When I bought my present house I held back money from the sale of the previous house to fund the building of a workshop. There was already a single garage with room for an identical second along side. However I needed planning permission (the new garage being over 10% of the plan area of the house). I had a close looking at the planning details and decided it would be unwise to call it a workshop. According to the details (25 years ago) it was obvious that you could use a garage for almost anything so I did not feel dishonest. I kept all my neighbours informed of my intentions and there no objections. I have never had any complains and I try not to upset them.

I think if I was repeating the exercise now I would say it is a workshop in the application since the concept of a work space outside the living area of the house is well understood.

JA

It has been interesting and informative to read the responses provoked by my previous post. Regarding the post from JA as far as I am aware 'portable' constructions that are under a certain internal volume, i.e. those that can be dismantled and removed like my pre-cast concrete workshops, are exempt from any sort of planning requirement or permissions. (actually I don't think you need planning for house extensions, e.g. permanent conservatories, that do not extend beyond a certain distance from the rear of your property, but that's another story). I would agree that it is only common courtesy to inform immediate neighbours of any intentions if you happen to be on speaking terms with them, but should they object and you do not propose to do anything that it is not within your rights as a property owner they cannot legally do much about it. Anyone may choose to be deterred by objectors or they may elect to stand on their rights as I would choose to do with as much diplomacy and civility as I could muster in justifying my actions. Happily, for me at least, I have not been tested in this situation. (Yet!).

I think that even if you did need planning permission for anything that had been built over 20 years ago without any objections being received over that time, you would get it almost automatically retrospectively on the grounds of 'established use' if you had to apply. However, I am not a lawyer and only have cursory knowledge of planning matters, so I stand to be corrected and educated on this last point.

Edited By Chris Crew on 08/02/2021 14:26:55

Edited By Chris Crew on 08/02/2021 14:29:41

I assumed the peremptory opening was intended to be humorous, so I didn't think to take umbrage. I also guessed he was punting for quick and simple answers.

Some 'opes wi' you lot, eh?

The opening did not worry me. It was/is a good question.

If I was in a pub in Corby 45 years ago and someone adressed me as "Hey, Jimmy" I would have ducked, trying to avoid the next part of the address!

JA

Which would probably be F--- O--

Corby is a much more refined place now.

regards

Meant in humour, to stand out, a good title should be eye-catching to draw an audience in so my english teacher used to say. Don't take it to heart, there is nothing more than that meant by it, besides it's been (it is) a good discussion!

I'm encouraged by that JA, overwhelmingly it's the skill I'd like as much as the capability and I'd have a crack at making... well anything, unless it needs a mill Peter, SWMBO has supported 3D printers, a workshop build and blinked (only the once) at a lathe... a mill might be a bridge too far... For now :D.

So I'm now on the page that I need to make way for several lathes, not because I want more than 1 but because it seems they bred when you're not looking? Preferably quiet ones for the neighbours sakes (Though they're a good lot and it turns out my garage keeps most of the noise in, as I've brought it up a few times only to get puzzled looks).

Ironically the only complaints I've had off my neighbours was from the bloke across the road, the security light overlooking the drive was aimed too high. The other from the guy out the back as I was burning some wood which was a lot wetter (and hence smokier) than the stored dried stuff I'd started with, so fair enough.

You won't know till you try. She'll love it. What could go wrong? Go on...

I just printed this for my Pultra. Can you tell what it is yet?

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 08/02/2021 23:26:33

I used to espouse an Emco Maximat Super11 (later big bore model), latterly I transferred my affections to the rather lovely Harrison M300, typically when a new lathe finally came my way it was neither of these.
When choosing a lathe keep in mind that 4 things in life are sure, death, taxes, that you will want a longer lathe and that you will at some point wish for more capacity through the spindle.