Why Column gear shift

My mate's car was probably a little more run in...

https://goo.gl/images/YZBR2b

Pure American style influenced by the parent company, dashboard like a jukebox, blinded by chrome if the sun caught it. Bought mine in the early seventies when you could see me out in my white nylon polo neck, green velvet flares looking real . Lazy to drive with 3 lite straight six, only needed to come out of 3rd below 15 mph, handled like a soft mattress and could watch the fuel gauge collapse if driven over 50 still would buy another if I could find one that the tin worm hasn't eaten.

Pulled the future ex Mrs C in that passion wagon, the bench seat was popular with us.

Never had any problems with precise gearchanges, only problem with column changes was with my works Bedford 4 speeder, the handle broke off at the hinge and the garage fitted a replacement from a 3 speeder so we had to drive around for 3 weeks with no reverse gear selectable and that sure makes one think about where you are going.

The Austin BMC J series gears was like others have said were nearly behind the left knee and the driver had to stir the porridge and hope it was the gear you wanted. And they were the good old days or is nostalgia blind.

Clive wrote "Maxi Mk1 version upsets the journalists and by osmosis all informed opinion agrees its hopeless."

I had one too and the gearchange was summed perfectly for me by one motoring journalist who likened it to "stirring a bucketfull of nuts and bolts with a bamboo cane".

Maxi Mk 1 - another sad example of innovative & clever British design let down by a poorly engineered feature. It had 5 doors, 5 gears, 1500 ohc engine and great roadholding for the mid 70s. Before that purchase I had a Standard Vanguard Vignale 6 with bench seat & 3 speed column change. So much torque you could move off in 3rd.
Those were the days.....Between 1950 and 1960, the number of vehicles on the roads of Britain more than doubled, from 4.0 million to 8.5 million. At the end of June 2017, there were 37.8 million vehicles registered for use on the road in Great Britain.(DVLA statistics).
Anyway, looks like manual boxes are on the way out "Last year, almost 650,000 new cars with an automatic gearbox were registered in Britain, representing a 55 per cent increase compared to 2013. It’s estimated that demand for automatic gearboxes is growing 300 per cent faster than the total market growth.It’s worth pointing out as well that alternative-fuel vehicles, including virtually all hybrids and fully-electric cars, tend to use an automatic gearbox. Alternative-fuel vehicles are becoming much more popular, with the year-to-date sale figures in the first third of 2017 already up by 23.8 per cent compared to the same time period last year."
(Source: https://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/more-uk-drivers-are-picking-automatic-gearboxes-over-manual)

Samsaranda's post re. engine 'swapping' reminded me of RAF Dishforth in the 50's. Underpaid cheapskates that we were, cars were rare and unusual - unusual in the sense that one of our lot appeared one day with a Packard Straight 8. The unusual bit was that lifting the bonnet revealed ... an Austin 7 engine!!! Unsurprisingly, performance was less than sparkling - not helped by his fuel of choice being paraffin

My eventual 'steed' was a Standard 8 convertible - £60s worth of well rotted metal and fabric with a gearbox which had self-converted from synchromesh to crashbox and which ultimately ground to a halt at 1 AM between Ripon and Dishforth with OAT of 0degC and (then) G/F still in best stilettos. That romance was somewhat shortlived!

rgds

Bill

Taking of torque, I had a P4 Rover 90 - otherwise known as an Auntie Car - which had a very long cranked gear lever with a ball pivot at the crank. It gave plenty of leg room but it had a design fault being so long and whippy. It snapped. Twice. No worries - to get a replacement each time I drove about 10 miles each way to the Rover dealer the other side of the nearest town in 4th; she pulled away from traffic lights and other stoppages no worries with not much more clutch than normal. And had a useful bench seat - useful if you were courting that is - and quiet well appointed solid feel to the whole car. Plus it would cruise all day at 85 down the motorway without batting an eyelid although the fuel gauge did go down somewhat. Oh happy days!

Chris

Sounds like a 2CV with worn bushes on the linkage. The way to deal with that was to spend(!) up to £2 on new rubber bushes. I had a 2CV Dyane where the bushes got so worn they broke in two and fell off, leaving and only the central metal pin to operate the linkage. It went from 45 degrees between 1st and 4th to about 120 degrees when this happened.

I love my 2CV, but the gears are 'interesting'. My wife once had brain fade and tried to put the car in reverse when she wanted 4th. Amazingly enough we didn't get loose teeth in the gearbox.

Regards,

Richard.

I think with the move to more gears in the gearbox automatic has to be the way to go. I have an 8 speed auto and optional paddle shift, out of interest I tried the paddle shift but I found it much to busy to be any fun. Just sit back and let the car get on with it. Put the cruise control on and then it's just the steering to take care of, bring on the self driving cars I say.

Mike

So, sifting through the replies, and everyone certainly enjoyed the remenissing the answer seems to be:

1. It was a fashion thing and allowed bench seats.

2. It was probably influenced in the main by America

3. It wasn't lazyness on the part of the manufacturers as floor shifts were in existance prior to this.

4. The UK motor industry in the 50's and 60's was more switched on to market forces than one may have supposed.

Coming on to modern vehicles the only real way of maximising efficiency is to allow the engine management total control over power delivery so auto shift will become the norm just like injection replaced conventional carburation.

The initial post was an attempt to guess what was in the minds of the designers and manufacturers of the day and I think that has been answered in some measure. Certainly got a response anyhow.

regards Martin

Martin,
Certainly "it" originated in North America and during the severe post-war austerity, British manufacturing industry was instructed by govt. to export only. For some period, steel was only made available for making exported products. North America was then the affluent export market so Brit car makers had to make cars which conformed to US tastes.
Your point 4 must be contentious though. They were generally swtiched on to design trends but mostly failed to produce vehicles which were reliable enough for typical driving in North America e.g. sustained long distance cruising. Of course they were also guilty of that same failing for the home market or the Germans & Japanese would not have caused such devastation of our car (& m/cycle) industries from the early 60s.

I agree with Mike Poole's conclusion (except perhaps the value of cruise control on our congested roads). Having spent years "driving" on the M25: stop > edge forward > stop >... repeat for n miles, an automatic was, and is, considered essential. Likewise, I now forget my 8 speed transmission and have also tried the manual overide a few times but traffic density demands so much concentration these days, it's safer to let the ECM and drive train get on with it without my intervention.

[Note to self: must not get onto subject of m/way middle-lane drivers ]

Hi Flowler

Well I did say switched on to market forces. and trends. Succesfully responding is a separate question. You are correct on steel supply, I understand that is why Landrovers ended up in aluminium.

regards Martin

W0My wife has an automatic but it only has a four speed box. A good improvement over the three speeders but I can still get better mpg by using the manual gear selector. For another, you can be in the best gear for overtaking. Having to wait for a gear change, when starting to overtake is neither good for acceleration nor for it changing gear whilst changing lanes.

Agreed, our 4 speed auto gearbox is now 'old hat', but I remember the first time I 'kicked down' in a 3 litre Capri. It was a surprise, having never driven an auto previously!

Those of us that used to make hand signals, whilst driving, are likely better equipped than the latest generation of drivers!

As for cruise control - good as long as the driver knows its limitations. Remember, if it is retarded bybsome unwelcome object, it will simply accelerate. I was once sent a pic of a big american SUV that had a lot of armco barrier through, and beyond, the vehicle! It didn't stop until it stalled out.

Not a Citroen. I think it was a Renault.

Ugly thing

I've heard a lot of good things about the continuously variable transmission on Toyotas.

Neil

Coming in late as usual!

Column change was to allow three passengers in the front bench seats.

Bench seats predated column change. My father's 1947 Vauxhall, with floor mounted lever for the 3 speed box, had a bench seat.

Driving a car solo, with a bench seat meant that you had to hang on to the steering wheel going around right hand corners, to prevent you sliding across the car. In the Ford V8 Pilot, it was a long way across the big seat!

The Ford(son - strictly) van with the Consul engine, or Perkins 4.99 between the front seats, was a 3 speeder. As the linkage wore, it sometimes jammed. A kick under the drivers side floor usually returned life to normal until the next time.

Column changes caused problems on Morris Oxford, Series MO if the little pawl on the end of the die cast lever broke. To get into reverse, you had to move the lever with one hand, whilst pulling the rod up the steering column with the other.

I think that the Austin A90 H pattern was a mirror image of that used on the A70, and A50/A55; just to confuse things.

Renault 16TLs were 4 speed, whilst the 16TX was a 5 speed unit. (Possibly the only successful column change 5 speed?) The R16 was a reliable and durable system. The only problem that I heard was of someone who selected (as he thought) 3rd, but went the wrong side of the gate, at high speed, engaged 1st and let in the clutch with a bang. The next bang was the flywheel bolts shearing!

Renault 4 and Renault 6 cars had a dash mounted lever. In front of the engine, a ring surrounded a vertical gear lever sprouting out of the box, just like a floor mounted lever. Basic but quite effective and reliable.

This was not new, prewar BSA front wheel drive cars used the same arrangement.

Can't recall what the Citroen Light 15 and 22 (Traction Avants) used, but was probably something similar.

The Citroen DS had a column mounted lever which operated the hydraulic valves controlling the transmission. This could be used manually, or as an automatic.

The Standard Vanguard 2 litre engine WAS the original: (Also used in the Triumph 2000 "Razor Edge" saloon) It was derated, and modified for the Ferguson tractor, to run on petrol/paraffin, like most of the contemporary tractors, unless diesel powered.

Preselector boxes were often referred to as Wilson gearboxes after their inventor, but were made by Self Changing Gears of Coventry. The Douglas Tugmaster, powered by Rolls- Royce B80 or B81 petrol engine used a SCG preselector gearbox. This was an aircraft tug, tested to be capable of pulling a Locomtive, trucks and Brake van, with the brakes hard on, along the tracks, (but with a maximum speed of about 25mph on the open road).

Armstrong Siddeley, Riley, Daimler, Lanchester and Crossley cars used preselector gearboxes. You had to remember before changing down, not to have already preselected the lower gear, or you went down two, with a terrible lurch!

The London Transport RT did have a preselector gearbox, with a larger selector assembly on the column than the ones used on cars. (Some preselectors had the occasional unfortunate habit, for no obvious reason, except possibly wear; of the gear change pedal coming back much farther than normal and pinning the driver to the back of the seat). A hefty push with the left foot restored order and space in the cab.

The RouteMaster used an epicyclic box controlled by a system developed by C A V Ltd, to provide automatic transmission.

The gearboxes with the little short (about 2 inches long) lever were not preselector. They were, like the preselectors, epicyclic, but semi automatic. The little lever operated contacts which energised solenoid valves which fed compressed air to rams which operated the appropriate brake band(s) within the gearbox. These boxes would adjust the brake bands for wear automatically. If a solenoid valve stuck, you could end up with two gears engaged at the same time, locking the transmission.

Leyland used a similar system, (Pneumocyclic) but with the lever operating the air valves directly, on the PD3/5 bus chassis, with centrifugal clutch. (It was the normal dry plate clutch but controlled by five bob weights. At idle there was a characteristic clanging sound, as the bob weights rattled against the ring that limited their travel!)

On Southdown Motor Services, there was a raised pad on the floor, in place of the clutch pedal normally there on manual transmissions.

Howard

As Howard says, it wasn't just American and American-influenced cars that had column changes. My grandad had a Daimler with a Wilson pre-selector gearbox, which was the wierdist thing I ever drove (except, perhaps a Citroen DS21) and a pal's father had a Merc with a column change. The best I ever drove, in the middle 1960s, was a brilliant Peugeot which, well ahead of its time, had fuel injection. It really was fun to drive fast.

I've heard it said that some drivers don't like CVT because the transmission tries to keep the revs constant so they feel that nothing happens when you put your foot down ( no audio feedback). I believe that some manufacturers have added artificial broom broom noises to address this issue.

Rod

Long live the Daffodil.

Howard Lewis,

I remember the Halifax buses during the late 40's & 50's. These were AEC and had a preselector gearbox with a short selector lever. I can well remember the drivers, and bear in mind that routes around Halifax were hilly, in some instances very hilly, selecting the next lower gear, and then depressing the change pedal whereupon there was an almight jerk along with the poor old diesel engine struggling mightily to keep up - if you see what I mean. Mind you, when they actually got into top on the level, the engine produced a most satisfying roar as it accelerated.

Later, probably late 50's, Halifax got some new buses which were floor mounted and I think a normal gearbox.

Interestingly in the 1970's & 80's, Bradford had a lot of as you said, semi-automatic buses, ie a stubby little gear lever which changed the gears as soon as it was moved - no need of clutch. Unfortunately, the majority of Bradford's drivers either didn't care, or didn't know how to drive these buses smoothly. The general idea was to use what was called Driver 1st to start and once going, slam the lever straight into Driver 2nd without releasing the accelerator: result was a massive, and for me painful due to back problems, lurch. Occasionally we got a driver who knew how to drive and surprisingly, those drivers could drive those buses more smoothly than the later fully automatics.

I mentioned Driver 1st & Driver 2nd. These boxes were a 5 speed box with true 1st being in effect an emergency low and which required the driver to operate two levers simultaneously. I have been on a bus where the driver refused to use true 1st on a steep uphill with the inevitable result: the bus tried to set off, the engine couldn't cope, so it lost revs followed by the automatic clutch disengaging, followed by the engine picking up, the clutch engaging and so we travelled in a series of lurches. It's a tribute to the vehicle builders that the buses actually stood up to that sort of punishment.

But Yorkshire buses, in around the late 80's/early 90's got some fully automatic drive by wire buses. These were superb. All you could hear was the engine note rising and falling as the gears changed whilst acceleration remained extremely smooth. They would accererate smoothly up to about 50mph and then go dead, obviously some sort of limiter. I was quite jealous as my car could not compete for smoothness.

Peter G. Shaw

Neil - thinking about it a bit more, there was a perfectly logically reason why the Renault 4 had a dash mounted 'umbrella' gear change lever - I suspect the Citroen 2CV had the same reason but not sure. The Reno 4 was front wheel drive but the engine and gearbox were not mounted transversely as is the norm these days but longitudinally, with the gearbox in front of the engine. The gear change shaft stood up vertically from the gearbox and so the route from the gear change shaft to umbrella handle was a straight line across from the dash over the top of the engine to the gearbox - simples. All the best ideas are that - simples! Chris

I remember driving a pal's Citroen Big 15 over some pretty rough roads in Africa in the early 1960s. The gear lever for the three-speed box sprouted out of the dashboard, and the hand brake was an umbrella handle just below the dashboard. The handling on gravel roads was far better than any British car of the period, and it had a big enough radiator so it wasn't constantly boiling on hot days. A pal bought the car from a bloke who threw in a beret and a couple of packs of Gauloises. I believe the Big 15 once held the Cape to Cairo record. Vive la traction avant!