New chinese lathe or old Myford lathe

For me it split into what your aim is with the hobby whether it is old machinery centred and making the machines the best they can be for their age, or the things you wish to make with them. if its the machinery that drives your interest then buy an old British machine and have the pleasure of working on it and making it usable again. If its the things you wish to make which drives you, such as engines and the like, then buy new and get making.

Forgive my crust for a first posting, but I would avoid anything badged as a Myford unless you really, really understand what you are getting. The ones that look like a bargain will be in poor condition and the ones that are in good condition are overpriced (ask me how I know).

As the owner of a S7, I would agree there is nothing 'super' about this relic of 1930s technology or the fact the spindle bore will only pass just over 1/2 inch ( which causes significant wastage of material). It is a joy to use (sometimes), but like a vintage motorcycle, you need to drive it carefully for good results.Yes, spare parts are available, at a cost in time and/or money and you can spend more time fettling the ruddy thing than actually making stuff.

A friend has one of the new WM 250 (other sources available) which comes with most of the basic kit included in the price and has a decent 1" headstock bore. To my jaundiced eye, it was an impressively smooth, quiet, fast, swarf generator and generally tolerant of the levels of abuse that I am wont to inflict on a lathe. I felt the bitter stab of lathe envy.

With the grand plus that you can save over the cost of a top notch S/H Myford you would also be able to buy a shed load of whatever tooling you require (that is new tooling, not 50 yr old worn out relics of faded engineering glory).

Due to the fact the pound in your pocket is now worth less than plastic washer from B&Q, the imported equipment is now more expensive than a couple of years ago. But if I was squandering my money again and not wanting to support the heritage industry, I would be getting a modern machine.

Just my biased 5p worth!

I sold my Myford ML7, a great machine but showing its age, and bought a Myford refurbed 254S that had never been used. A truly great machine. Better than the old style machines and it has a 10 inch capacity, hence the 254 reference. When I wanted a milling machine however I decided that all of the older traditional machines were far too large for my garage so I bought a brand new Seig from ArcEuro. Another great machine from a great company. Oh yes most of my work involves machining stainless and both machine perform magnificently.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 19/10/2017 18:19:42

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 19/10/2017 18:20:56

I think a lot of rubbish is talked about different lathe makes. I started work in 1970 as an apprentice toolmaker and have used most types of lathes. Harding, DSG and a few others were good but the likes of Colchester and Harrison were ropey. Noisy and inaccurate a couple of years old. I would tread very carefully about buying a vintage British lathe unless you want to spend time refurbishing it.

I use a Warco 330 which Is definitely not a Rolls Royce, but it will cut parallel over 6inches to within a thou. Not many Colchesters will do that. For the price I paid I can't fault it. I've only had it about a year but not had a single issue with it and i haven't made any significant alterations to it.

Personally I would never own a Myford, flimsy weak and underpowered.

At the end of the day it is the operator who makes the difference a good turner with get first class results from a mediocre lathe.

Michael

The fact that the OP muses on Chinese or Myford implies he wants a bench size lathe, not a whopping great 500KG+ floor stander.

This limits the choice a bit to bench size 10" or less.

Any Chinese might do if you don't want to use it in a shed (damp kills some of the speed controllers) or you don't intend any low speed big cuts, if you do Warco at least do a belt drive one for that. just be aware that overloading this sort of modern stuff tends to let the smoke out and the guarantee doesn't cover miss use. Old 'junk' just slips the belt and lives to fight another day.

Quality wise I have two far east machines, a bench drill from 1990 that clattered like a machine gun fro new when not drilling (the quill is rubbish) & a Combination roller, folder cutter thing with bolts drilled and tapped at odd angles and sort of works as a roller once you pack out all the slack.

British stuff comes in three camps,

'been in a school / education' which it clearly hasn't if you look at the photos or when true it might have been crashed to death, also training lathes are very basic ones and no extra tooling.

refurbished, likely a coat of paint is all the refurb it got and and no extra tooling.

Original paint, only a bit scruffy, no streaks on the bed from the tailstock, might be a good one, might get extra tooling.

To be honest it's probably time to toss a coin as neither route is perfect.

When I was a boy into short-wave radio there was a lot of highly desirable government surplus about. World War Two was my playground! My hearts desire was either a USA made RCA AR88D:

or a Marconi CR100 (British or Canadian):

You won't be surprised to hear that the sexy American AR88D was much more expensive second-hand than the plug ugly British receiver, which everyone agreed was very inferior. With hindsight it turns out that the real world performance of the two receivers was similar. In truth the AR88 looked better than it performed, whilst the CR100 performed better than it looked. The morale of the story is that even cold-hearted techies allow emotion to override their better judgement! That couldn't possibly happen with lathes as well could it?

The CR100 and AR88 weighed as much as an ML7 and were gob-smackingly expensive when new. Well beyond the purse of all but the very rich or a government. Today you can buy a Software Defined Radio for about £150 that outperforms both of them, or connect to an online webSDR for free. The AR88 and CR100 are both fun to play with though despite the fact that they're getting difficult to keep in top condition. You can't get the parts guv!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 19/10/2017 20:57:09

My chief worry is that there simple aren't enough decent quality second hand lathes to go around.

The whole future of our hobby relies on people being able to buy decent quality, affordable imported machines.

I also know that the profit margins on these machines are modest. The companies who sell them don't want to sell people lemons or give poor customer backup because they make their living out of the customers who keep coming back for tooling and accessories not people who buy a machine and give up because it is crap.

Yes there are people who have had bad experiences with imported lathes. My mini lathe wasn't perfect, it faced ever so slightly convex, but it was ten years before I felt the need (and had the skill/confidence/equipment to correct it). I think it only ever affected two things I've made and I was able to work around it.

Today's machines are, on the whole, far superior to apparently identical machines of 10-20 years ago in terms of build quality, reliability, accuracy and specification. Buy from a reputable dealer who WILL put things right and you can't go far wrong.

Equally, second hand, you can be lucky and get a great machine via a private sale (I have) or get a crock of shirt (I have, luckily not hugely expensive items) with no come back. You can buy off specialist s/h dealers who have a reputation to look after,and pay a bit more but be more confident of what you get.

There's no right or wrong and in practice a new imported machine and an old British machine are likely to be much the same in practice. If you but carefully the old one will be worn in, rather than worn out, and if it has foibles you will probably forgive them rather than see them as faults.

There are enough machines about for everyone to be able to choose a machine according to their personal preference, but I do worry that sometimes advice is based more on prejudice and snobbery - on both sides of the argument - than it is one fact.

The lathe that is best for you is the one you will use regularly - simples.

Neil

Probably the best thing the op could do is give Ketan a call and talk to him about new Chinese machines and maybe try one of the advertisers in ME / MEW that deal in second hand machines .

This is so true. The old lathe itself can easily become the hobby. I spent several years getting my old Drummond M-type up to snuff and making accessories for it with not a single model engine made. Then I went and bought an ML7 that was too cheap to let it go by. Doh! Now it's all in bits in my shed being slowly reconditioned and reassembled, and eating up all of my shed time in the process. Had I bought a halfway decent Chinese lathe to start with, I would have made several engines by now, I'm sure.

On the other hand, my mate bought a used Hercus South Bend clone in good nick, cleaned it up and started using it right away, just like a new lathe. So it all depends on getting the right used machine, which as Neil points out in his post above are getting fewer and farther between. So it depends on timing too. If you live somewhere where there are plenty of used lathes for sale and have the time and knowledge to inspect them and wait until a pristine "cream puff" comes up, all well and good. But it could take months or a year to find that perfect used machine. With a new machine you can order it today and get started machining next week when it arrives.

So I think your first thing to do is start scouting around your region looking at used machines and get a feel for what's out there and how long it might take to come across a pristine example. Viewing some of the clapped out sheeters on the market and listening to their seller's high praise for them will be an education along the way.

Once you've had a look around you will be in a better position to decide if you want to buy new or used.

My comments, for what they are worth.

I was given a Flexispeed a couple of years ago. It was in excellent condition, with no apparent wear or major damage. It meets my needs in every way so far regarding size and capacity, and appears to be as accurate as I am ever likely to need, certainly with my current skill level.

However, it is incredibly frustrating that I cannot buy accessories to fit and have to either make or modify everything. I also looked at a new Draper mini lathe in the local tool merchants. I could see no reason why it would be any less useful or accurate than the Flexispeed, but accessories to fit are ten a penny from a variety of suppliers and E-bay.

If I had to choose now, much I as I like the Flexispeed and am extremely grateful for having been given it, I should almost certainly err on the side of a new Chinese machine.

James.

Yeah, but you have to be able to recognise them for what they are!

That takes experience, and some would rather develop experience in using machines to make what they want, rather than faultfinding and looking for - or making - scarce tooling and accessories.

I think Carl Wilson 4 has pushed my opinion towards a new Chinese one. Looking at the price he would have to pay now for the British lathe he bought, taking into account wear and price of used parts to replace even more used parts oh and then there is plus delivery.

Anyone could buy a very well equiped, very decent new lathe with deivery included and not worry about wear for a pretty long time. Until recently I owned a Chester DB10 from new and a ML7 from a deceased friend. I now feel that I made the right decision to get rid of the ML7 and keep the Chester, funny how other people's views can influence the thought process.

PS, thanks to John Stevenson I am now producing some very nice accurate thin grooves with my Chester.

When looking for an old British lathe as I said before be prepared to travel and reject the dogs. I spent my 50 years working in the mould and die tool rooms of the Midlands. One place I stayed at for a long time replaced the Colchester Triumph 2000 lathe every 5 years, the lathes where knackered after 4 years but our finance packages paid for them over 5. Sixty plus hours a week in a contract tool room takes it's toll.

SOD, that radio site is interesting, my comunication receiver is at the moment a bit of a boat anchor, it's brain has died (again), its an Icom IC-R71.

Back to lathes.

Ian S C

I have a old and somewhat worn Super Seven (certainly not pristine) but then I didn't pay very much for it.

I've learned to cope with most of it's little foibles but if I was starting over I would most likely buy a new Chinese lathe these days. However for much of my work I can get 'good enough for me' results out of it. I've made a few improvements but for most folk I suspect the effort required would be a nuisance...

Buy new if you can afford it.

Regards,

IanT

Edited By IanT on 20/10/2017 10:20:09

Here is my 20¢ worth.

China (as well as most other industrialised countries) are perfectly capable of building decent machinery.

The deciding factors between great, fair and adequate (given a decent initial design) are all down to quality control.

Decent quality control and inspection costs more than lesser standards so in a competitive market a hobby machinery importer is between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

The target market expectations range from a budget conscious hobbyist to more seasoned veterans so it is always a juggling act to get the balance right between price, included accessories and advertising expenses and then still take home a fair wage to feed the wife and kids.

Often the decider for the purchaser is the magic word 'SUPPORT'.

When on the odd occasion I have purchased an item that did not perform or was defective the response of the vendor was critical. A poor (or lack of) response not only meant a lost customer for ever but with today's social media probably a few others too.

The good side is that when a good vendor is found that act decently then the word spreads just as rapidly.

I have noticed that a few forum advertisers are aware of this and participate here - Well done to those people and smart thinking for keeping up with life in the iAge.

* Danny M *

ps. if I just invented a new word iAge then I claim all credit!

Edited By Danny M2Z on 20/10/2017 10:26:45

Edited By Danny M2Z on 20/10/2017 10:28:54