How should we describe non-metric tooling?

Well I understand what Imperial means to me, strikes me if Imperial and Metric is in the same sentence a spirited debate will result-each to their own 

Mick

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My point was, Brian ... They fit.

The markings on the spanner may, or may not, match the thread diameter [depending upon the vintage] ... but they fit.

MichaelG.

I'd feel guilty except that 'The 1824 Act allowed the continued use of pre-imperial units provided that they were customary, widely known, and clearly marked with imperial equivalents.' My point remains that the mixture of 'English', 'Imperial' and 'Customary' measures was a mess, and despite much simplification over two centuries remains so.

I think the fans of Imperial measure would be less keen if they had to pass exams in it. For example, without looking anything up: 'A 10 foot length of empty 4½" internal diameter pipe weighs 15¾lbs. What is the total weight of the pipe after it has been filled with distilled water?'

I'd say it's only possible to think Imperial is a sensible system by ignoring most of it.

Dave

Havng read this read I feel bound to ask what i should ask for when buying mint imperials...?

How would I describe non-metric tooling? Obsolete! Like it or not the UK is slowly but surely going over to the SI system. My children who are in their 20s and 30s simply do not understand inches, pounds etc, and expecting them to learn an obsolete measurement system to take up our hobby is living in cloud cuckoo land

Yes a lot of my stuff is non metric, and I'm not going to throw it away, but since fitting my milling machine and lathe with DROs I find myself using metric dimensions most of the time. It's easier. Just try adding 27/64" to 7/32" and converting it to decimal in your head so you can use a micrometer.

I'm half way through my twenties exactly, i'm not averse to imperial if I must use it, but I can definitely understand it!

Not all the young'uns can be measured by the same yard stick

Michael W

As an engineer, I groan in disbelief when I see US technical data. They persist with pounds and ounces, inches, feet and miles, pints, quarts and gallons, horse power, gauss, minutes, hours etc etc. Trying to calculate stuff is a nightmare, with endless conversion factors even within their own system.

In contrast, EVERY measurement in the SI system can be (and generally is) defined in metres, seconds and kg. Obviously some units have their own name (Pascals for instance) but these are simply for convenience and the "conversion factor" remains unity. And the larger and smaller values are simply expressed as micro, milli, kilo, mega etc etc.

It gets really silly when Mercans start to mix metric and imperial units. One day they might get it....

So what should we call measurement systems that are neither metric, nor imperial. I could maybe suggest autonomous mensuration units or maybe anthropocentric units.

:0)

Martin

"It gets really silly when Mercans start to mix metric and imperial units. One day they might get it...."

Yep, pre surface mount electronics, had to lay artworks for PCBs with imperial pitched holes for ICs and transistors and metric for resistors and caps.

Impetric sizes.

Regards Ian

I worked as a Draughtsman both before and after metrication and the latter was a Godsend, I found working with fractions was a nightmare especially on some of the American drawings we had to use, to find a particular length might require adding four or more dimensions such as 1-19/64" , 11/16", 3-17/32", 2.183" etc together and this was pre-calculator days.

John

For those with iOS devices ...

'Fraction Calculator Plus' by Digital Alchemy is a little gem of an App.

... There is a free [Ad-supported] version if you're worried about spending 49p.

Hang the expense; buy 'Calculator Plus' as well.

MichaelG.

Reading this post reminds me of an incident, when I had my gutters and facials replaced. It was a two man team, one of them had just left school. At one point the older chap called down for" one and a half metres of the six inch". A short time later I said to the school lever that I realised that the other chap was his boss, but he wasn't doing him any favours by mixing metres and inches. His reply? "What's the difference?". I went indoors to cry!

Maurice

Two ounces, unless you have false teeth, in which case you can have a quarter, but you will have to suck them.

Neil

I went into our local Wickes last week, and saw the small tape measures they have for sale in a jar at the till. I noted they were metric so asked the till operator if they had them in imperial. "what is imperial" she asked, I said the units on the tape are in feet and inches instead of metres, "what are feet and inches" she said, at which point I gave up.

Chris Gunn

Despite having used them professionally for the best part of 30 years, I didn't realise that SMT compts are actually available in both metric and imperial descriptions. So you could specify an 0603 compt (imperial) and end up with a metric one with 40% of the linear dimensions. I've worked with them in most major markets (US, EU, Far East) yet never come across "metric" ones. You live and you learn...

Murray

I learned metric at school in the 70's. Had to then learn Imperial during my apprenticeship, where the majority of projects where still in inches. I am happy working with either. I have dual dials on my lathe and a DRO on the mill so swapping is easy. My pet hate though is Imperial drawings other than with fractions. They just are a pain when I am used to working with decimals. I do tend to think in Imperial though. I can visualise 5 thou, 0.127mm just doesn't compute somehow.

I Have just been making some new wheel studs for a 1929 Crossley truck , the hub end is 3/4 bsf but the wheel nut end is 18 x2mm thread . It would appear that the mixing of imperial and metric has been going on for quite some time

Ian I was mid apprenticeship during the change here in Australia one fine student in his last year raced out and bought a full set of metric shifters seriously!!!
At work we still worked imperial building bus & coach frames many chasiss were UK built or some US then in came the Asian such as UD, IZUZU etc all metric. Still all or materials were imperial. Many staff were European or some middle eastern. It was not until the mid 80's steel tubing etc changed to metric, by then I was out of that company but doing repairs at bus & coach co's i worked at. Now trying to explain to bosses why I'd have to build up a gap so panel sheets inside and out would not be uneven as vehicles built prior 80's had imperial tube which was larger.

It caused much trouble in repairing motors, bodies, drivers not understanding 8ft2" width of the body was now 2.48m wide same or that 14ft high was now4.2m these were imperative to know as road bridges clearance signs changed almost over night and as we see here old people don't take well to change.

I hate Metric I snap more bolts and nuts it comes loose more than imperial thread pitch varies between same sizes.

0001thou is better than ??

Mars orbiter crashes because of metric imperial woopsie

We are now on the third page of this subject and personally I fail to see what all the fuss is about. I was educated in the 1950's and 60's and was brought up with feet and inches, pounds and ounces et al. I still have a set of Whitworth/BSF spanners from my motorcycling days. The worst thing was the A level Applied Mathematics course with its' Foot/Pounds and British Thermal Units. Then there was Physics,where we used the CGS system. This later got changed to the MKS system, which is all very well, but has led to some ridiculously large or small units which have to be multiplied or divided by at least 1000 to get practical, everyday values.

I have got used to metric measurements and tend to use them most of the time now, although when faced with an unfamiliar value, I have to do a rough mental conversion to Imperial, in order to visualise the length, volume, weight etc.