Beware Bought Lathe tools.

Tony,

Grinding lathe tools is the most basic thing we do when starting to learn lathe work,

If you don't have a go at it , then you'll never get the hang of it, It's not clever or wildly technical, it's just got to be right for the job you are doing at the time.

If you've got a threading tool angle gauge ( probably less than £5 ) and a grinder, you'll never need to buy any threading tools at all.

Like John says, there is no need for carbide threading tools on a manual lathe at all,

Richard.

Hi John,

I agree that you only get what you pay for and accept the shortcomings, but I paid for and was supplied with ostensibly a 55º tool as I said in my original posting to cut a standard Whit thread. I was not after long lasting tool, just a one off small job. As far as I am concerned it is disposable.

It was advertised as a 55º tool and that is what should have been supplied. If it were 57º then I agree it could be touched up with a diamond hone. But as it is over 80º it needs more than just 'a couple of licks'.

I much prefer HSS and when my grinding rest is up and running I will use that to produce a reasonably accurate one next time.

I was just trying to warn newbies to be on their guard in my OP.

Regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 14/10/2012 15:03:39

Hi Terry,

While I agree that the "tool" you bought appears to be not of merchantable quality, I don't quite understand why you had to wait a minimum of overnight delivery to get one, and now wait to get a replacement. I hope you don't take this as antagonistic but surely you had have a bit of HSS left from pre-fire days, I would be even more surprized that you don't have a threading one of some description, and a grinder MUST have been one of your first purchases post fire. There is no way that HSS tooling would have been affected by a domestic house fire, save for bit of discolouration, and so should still be useable.

Now, as to loosing concentricity don't you have a four jaw? i would have thought that a man of your experience would not think twice about taking out and then replacing a work piece as many times as is needed.

Now, again, assuming you do have a tatty old bit of HSS to hand but don't have a grinder, yet (limited budget quite understandable), a 6" self adhesive abrasive disc stuck to an old bit of MDF, and spun in a lathe, makes a perfectly useable grinder. The fag of having to cover the bed ways out weighs waiting till the Midlands to get a replacement any day in my book.

As I said this is not meant to be antagonistic, so don't get all het up at what is meant to be helpful advise. It is just that, although I am a patient man, i would never let the lack of a simple tool bit stop me if, with a few minutes and some means of grinding, I could get one straight away.

chriStephens

PS to all those knocking chinese stuff, are you sure it not from another asian country of questionable quality control?

EDIT, Yes, you were right to warn newbies which was the reason you initialy posted, I suppose.

Edited By chris stephens on 14/10/2012 14:56:11

Chris,

Most of my tooling was lost in the genreal debris after the firemen had thrown everything around to get at the smouldering embers and I was not allowed to enter as it was unsafe. I saved what I could but it was precious little. Until you have experienced one of these it is amazing how much debris and carcoal there is and th emen engaged to clear the site did a thorough job of it. My concrete floor had around 50mm of wet charcoal covering everything from the substantial wooden timbers and roof. It was wet due to the firemens efforts and 2 weeks of rain following the fire. The temperature was enough to cause an 8x4 RSJ to bend like a bow.. The damage to the HSS tools is mainly rust.. Just to demonstrate, I attach a couple of pics to show the devastation after the fire and the firemen had done their best.

I an quite capable of grinding general lathe tools but my eyes are not up to the accuracy required for a threading tool and as I have pointed out my grinding rest is not yet refurbished. Many folks find it difficult enough to grind up even basic lathe tools without a Worden or similar.

As for the 4 jaw, you are correct, I find them no problem to accurately locate work and am surprised when others do have problems, but it's a bit of a fag with these modern bolt on fixtures, it's just another chore I'd rather not have to do it I can help it.

And you are right, As I said in my first post it was aimed at newbies, I was not complaining just pointing out that problems have happeed somewhere in the supply chain and that they should be aware o fit. I also said that I am sure that the reputable supplier will change it. I must say that I am finding it a bit tiresome when some posters jump to conclusions without reading posts properly and miss the intentions, I must admit to being guilty of it at times though myself.  Click on the pictures......   If you dare........

Let that be a warning

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 14/10/2012 15:34:35

Ouch! Triumph Stag gone too

What caused it Terry?

Terry

You seem to have come under a lot of fire for attempting to draw the attention of newbies such as I to possible shortcomings in products from the cheaper end of the scale. I for one have noted this particular pitfall and may well profit from your lesson. Thank you for posting. Nuff said?

Jim

Actually Paul,

it was two Triumph Stags . I was just about to install a newly reconditioned engine into the 2nd beastie. It was just outside the garage door as you need a very high lift and at 9ft high not even my garage was high enough. If you look at the picture in my last posting, you can see a 24ft long beam with a pile of masonry. The Bradstone masonry was built on top of the beam in a style I like to think of as 'Fred Dibnah'. That fell on to the front of the car from a height of 9ft +. Here it is leaving It was pristine before the fire. The canvas roof was new, but bleached from the fire and torn where masonry had fallen through. Here goes (to the tune of 'She's Leaving Home' by the fab four):

Note the carbon inside the screen due to the fire travelling under the car and starting the carpets and upholstery to smoulder. The loss adjuster said there was no evidence of fire inside the vehicle.

It was thought to have been caused by an electrical fault, and it had been a very hot day

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 14/10/2012 17:07:15

Terry that must be devastating is it salvageable?

Regards

Paul

No, the insurance company insisted it was removed as it had been involved in a fire. It is probably now containing dog food on supermarket shelves.

Regards

Terry

So which thread form uses 82 degrees ?

Or being used to make turning tools

As JS said PG thread uses 80deg angle, thats the thread used on electrical conduit which being thin walled does not want a deep thread

This tool could also explain why so much of the imported tooling uses poor quality Whitworth fixings if thats what they are using to cut them

J

Edited By JasonB on 17/10/2012 08:47:18

Thanks to the references to PG thread, I am a little wiser.

Wikipedia came up trumps again.

MichaelG.

For beginners to machine shop engineering on a minimum budget: It is rarely cost effective or necessary to use tipped tools. The only time a model engineer can justify the cost of carbide tooling (including re-sharpening problems) is for machining cast iron when it is most desirable due to its ability to cut through hard spots and at a higher speed. A little persistant practice will soon allow you to hand grind HSS tools from standard blanks. As a matter of interest I find that one of those thin cutting discs for angle grinders saves a lot of time if a big piece of your prospective tool needs chopping off .Frequent cooling in water is needed for shaping HSS tools. Colin

Richard, I know grinding lathe tools is a basic skill to learn as I have been doing it for 40 plus years! You are missing the point in that the OP paid for and wanted a screw cutting form tool and thats not what he got. For a beginner that is a serious issue, it's just not acceptable to buy a form tool which isn't to the correct form. I also agree that carbide is a bit OTT for home workshop screw cutting and you can buy HSS screw cutting tools from the usual suppliers ready ground hopefully to the right angle.

Tony

Tiger Tanks will never be the same now I now "panzer" is pronounced "pants-zer"

Neil

Update,

I have now exchanged the tool without quibble and am very satisfied, and show the correct tool below.

A few points though,

my original post was intended as a warning to beginners to double check that they had received what they ordered as mistakes are made. I ordered a 55º tool but received one at 82º.

I did not complain about the quality, that was done by other posters.

To those who said I could grind up a tool yes, but without my grinding rest it is difficult to be absolutely accurate. I am well practised in HSS grinding (started at 16 as an apprentice, I am now 65) and will continue to do so, but cannot guarantee accuracy and this job needs accuracy.

To those who think tipped tooling is OTT, I bought a tipped tool as it was for a one off job and the tool was cheaper than a ready ground HSS one. i.e. £4.45 as opposed to around £8.70 for an HSS equivalent (actually £17.40 for a combined external/internal set).

I will not need to 'touch up' the tool as it appears very accurate.

I am satisfied.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 18/10/2012 09:54:40

Relying wholly on the Chinese for quality control is not a good idea, they are very different from the Japanese about these things

The Japanese and the Polynesians are the only people in the world who think with the opposite side of the brain, it's something to do with a language high in verbs

It looks like Manganese bronze may have paid the ultimate price for outsourcing to China, they were already struggling

**LINK**

The Original TX series was bits from Nissan etc in Japan and is amazingly reliable

500,000 miles is normal for a TX1, many have now done more than this on the original engine

The newer TX4 has sourced bits from all over the place, the last I heard they used a converted Chrysler marine diesel. (That was the one which caught fire)

The South Korean and Malaysian stuff seems to be quite reliable but a lot of it is made using licensed technology and systems from Japan

So it's very much a case of Caveat Emptor (buyer beware)

It's not just mechanical stuff, electronic stuff from china seems to be a wing and a prayer as well

We've seen various problems with PCBs in here

I got a couple of cheapo compressors for car tyres from Tesco (tenner a pop)

They were fine to start with but both went tits up within 60 days because of electrical failure and I only used them for a few minutes once a week

My computer mainboard has been made in China by Intel and is great

So it depends very much upon who is in charge of quality control when something comes out of China. Ordering something then sitting back and and relying upon them to do it all on their own is a very high risk strategy

Edited By Ady1 on 18/10/2012 11:20:36

Hi Terry,

Glad you got satisfaction from your supplier, but not surprised as, when presented with the evidence, most reputable traders would exchange faulty goods and I hope that all traders at the show are reputable. I wonder if we will now see the market flooded with "special" Vee tools?

Out of curiosity what pitch BS thread you are cutting?

chriStephens

Hi Chris,

It is a BSF thread, 1 1/2" od 8tpi for some attachments to allow me to mount my boxford chucks on a rotary table and perhaps other circumstances. It's really just an exercise as I.ve never cut such a relatively coarse thread this large a diameter. I've often cut both internal and external threads up to ,around 2" dia but usually fine threads 60 for instruments and tools.

I could buy a Boxford nose for not very much, but that's no challenge is it? By the way, I never expected anything other than proper treatment from a reputable source.

Best regards

Terry