By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Forum House Ad Zone

Vernier vs Micrometer

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
<< First < Prev 1 2 3 Next > Last >>
Versaboss27/01/2012 10:02:12
512 forum posts
77 photos

Hmm, I wonder what the subtle differences are between

- clalipers

- claipers

- clipers and

- calipers.

(N. Farr; 27. 1., 02:08 (too late or too early???) )

I only own the last type I believe, but I'm sure Wolfie would like to know also

Greetings, Hansrudolf

Clive Hartland27/01/2012 10:40:34
avatar
2929 forum posts
41 photos
I think its called Dislexia HansRudolf, It comes from latency in typing when you are thinking ahead of what you are typing.
 
Clive
Andrew Johnston27/01/2012 11:28:01
avatar
7061 forum posts
719 photos
Versaboss,
 
That's 'cause we're English; we have enough trouble righting in our own langauge, let alone any others.
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
Terryd27/01/2012 11:34:49
avatar
1946 forum posts
179 photos
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 27/01/2012 11:28:01:
Versaboss,
 
That's 'cause we're English; we have enough trouble righting in our own langauge, let alone any others.
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
 
Hi Andrew,
 
What is a lan gauge, is it for measuring local networks, and why should we have to right it?
 
Dyslexia lures K.O.

Regards

Terry
Steve Garnett27/01/2012 12:24:15
837 forum posts
27 photos
Posted by Nicholas Farr on 27/01/2012 02:08:02:
 
Not wanting to put anyone down, but isn't the term "digital vernier" incorrect? A vernier being an graduated scale which is read against a different graduated scale, so that sub devisions can be easyly read. Claipers sould be refered to as; claipers, vernier calipers or digital clipers. Micrometers should be refered to as; micrometers, vernier micrometers or digital micrometers, I know they can be prefixed with metric/imperial/fractional, and/or a specific type, or am I wrong, or being pedantic.
 

 
Er, sort-of wrong I'm afraid. The term 'digital Vernier' does describe, at least basically, how they work. If you want to see exactly what I mean, probably the best thing to look at is the original patent from 1983, although being worded in patent jargonese doesn't exactly help one's understanding... Looking at some of the illustrations may though, although the concept has been refined somewhat. But the basic idea that what amounts to the rotor and the stator being of different lengths, running against each other and providing a differing positional output proportional to incremental positioning stands - in other words, yes it is a Vernier-derived output, and it's displayed digitally.
 
If I was going to be pedantic about it though, I'd say that it was a capacitive Vernier system with a digital display...
The Merry Miller27/01/2012 13:04:13
avatar
484 forum posts
97 photos

I use the micrometer as a rule.
 
Len P.
 
 
Andrew Johnston27/01/2012 13:40:47
avatar
7061 forum posts
719 photos
Terry: ....which rather neatly illustrates my point.
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
 
PS: It's for measuring lan-thanides.
Terryd27/01/2012 14:18:02
avatar
1946 forum posts
179 photos
Hi Andrew,
 
My comment was, of course, tongue in cheek, pity there's no such 'Smiley'
 
Best regards
 
Terry
Terryd27/01/2012 14:22:23
avatar
1946 forum posts
179 photos
Posted by Steve Garnett on 27/01/2012 12:24:15:

.......................................... But the basic idea that what amounts to the rotor and the stator being of different lengths..............................
 
If I was going to be pedantic about it though, I'd say that it was a capacitive Vernier system with a digital display...
Hi Steve,
 
I'm not sure what you mean by a 'rotor' and 'stator' in this context. Having read the petition several times now (my old brain takes it's time to wake up these days). The petitioner describes a 'scale' and a 'slider'. There is no rotation involved.
 
Confused regards,
 
Terry
Peter Hall27/01/2012 15:27:35
115 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by The Merry Miller on 27/01/2012 13:04:13:

I use the micrometer as a rule.
 
Len P.
 
 
You would probably find a ruler easier for that
 
Pete
blowlamp27/01/2012 15:31:06
avatar
1885 forum posts
111 photos
Posted by Peter Hall on 27/01/2012 15:27:35:
Posted by The Merry Miller on 27/01/2012 13:04:13:

I use the micrometer as a rule.
 
Len P.
 
 
You would probably find a ruler easier for that
 
Pete
 
 
OMG, Pete!
You don't know what you've started now
 
 
Martin.
Peter Hall27/01/2012 15:34:07
115 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by blowlamp on 27/01/2012 15:31:06:
Posted by Peter Hall on 27/01/2012 15:27:35:
Posted by The Merry Miller on 27/01/2012 13:04:13:

I use the micrometer as a rule.
 
Len P.
 
 
You would probably find a ruler easier for that
 
Pete
 
 
OMG, Pete!
You don't know what you've started now
 
 
Martin.
 
 
I think I do. I'm outta here...
 
Pete
Andrew Johnston27/01/2012 15:56:52
avatar
7061 forum posts
719 photos
Posted by Terryd on 27/01/2012 14:18:02:
 
My comment was, of course, tongue in cheek, pity there's no such 'Smiley'
 
Quite so, and taken as such. So was my reply!
 
Andrew
 
PS: I thought the original digital calipers, from pre-1983 used a Moire fringing effect?
Terryd27/01/2012 16:07:04
avatar
1946 forum posts
179 photos
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 27/01/2012 15:56:52:
Posted by Terryd on 27/01/2012 14:18:02:
 
My comment was, of course, tongue in cheek, pity there's no such 'Smiley'
 
Quite so, and taken as such. So was my reply!
 
Andrew
 
PS: I thought the original digital calipers, from pre-1983 used a Moire fringing effect?
 
Hi Andrew,
 
What a coincidence! After reading the patent petition several times and sort of understanding it, it seems to me that the caliper output is provided basically by reading the resultant from overlapping, interfering sinusoidal inputs. I saw that as being a Moire effect.
 
The fact that there are two parallel but differential scales to give the fine readings I saw a second Moire effect overlapping the first. I had never heard of using Moire interference in that way before but that was the picture as I saw it. I think that the patent is concentrating not on the method but on the ability to carry all of the electronics, generating as well as processing on the slider itself.
 
I don't think that it is really a Vernier scale, but differential scales generating a Moire pattern in the capacitance fields.
 
Regards
 
Terry
The Merry Miller27/01/2012 16:12:10
avatar
484 forum posts
97 photos

My thoughts exactly Terry.
 
Len. P.
 
 
Major Disaster27/01/2012 16:13:04
12 forum posts
I thought that we in the UK all used the Queen as a ruler.

Edited By Major Disaster on 27/01/2012 16:13:39

Steve Garnett27/01/2012 16:14:54
837 forum posts
27 photos
Posted by Terryd on 27/01/2012 14:22:23:

Hi Steve,
 
I'm not sure what you mean by a 'rotor' and 'stator' in this context. Having read the petition several times now (my old brain takes it's time to wake up these days). The petitioner describes a 'scale' and a 'slider'. There is no rotation involved.
 
Confused regards,

 
I did say 'what amounts to' - because I couldn't at that immediate time think of a suitable analogy. For me, scale and slider don't really explain the relationship, even though I'll freely admit that rotor and stator aren't ideal. If you want to know why I thought of it though, it's because this is the usual way that linear motor operation is explained - in terms of an unrolled rotor and stator.
 
No I'm not saying that a linear motor works the same way - it doesn't. It's just that there has to be a direct relationship between the parts, as there does with a capacitive sensor system, in the way that there clearly (to me) isn't with a scale and a slider, which have no implied relationship at all.
 
I hope that's a little clearer!
 
 

Edited By Steve Garnett on 27/01/2012 16:16:09

SteveW27/01/2012 16:24:17
avatar
140 forum posts
11 photos
Isn't a mic a fancy G cramp and a vernier an adjustable spanner??
 
We all use what's easiest I guess and gives repeatable measurements.
 
I'm never sure how accurate they are but a digial vernier is a lot easier to read to a degree of precision!
 
Steve W
Steve Garnett27/01/2012 16:28:38
837 forum posts
27 photos
Posted by Terryd on 27/01/2012 16:07:04:
 
I don't think that it is really a Vernier scale, but differential scales generating a Moire pattern in the capacitance fields.
 

So a Vernier system doesn't rely on an interference effect? It may not be Moire patterning as it stands, but the principle is the same.

Peter G. Shaw27/01/2012 16:41:39
avatar
1531 forum posts
44 photos
Going back to the original question, I have owned/do own the following:
Imperial 0-1" micrometer, 0.001 thou
Metric 0-25mm micrometer, resolution 0.01 mm
Metric 25-50mm micrometer, resolution 0.01 mm
0-150mm Vernier caliper, resolution 0.05mm
0-150mm dial caliper, resolution 0.02mm
0-150mm/0-6" digital caliper, resolution 0.01mm/0.0005 thou (Digical 1)
0-150mm/0-6" digital caliper, resolution 0.01mm/0.0005 thou (Digical 2)
0-150mm dial caliper, resolution 0.01mm
 
When I realised that there were various discrepancies, I bought the 25, 50 & 75mm Mitutoyo micrometer standards and set about checking everything. Obviously I am aware that touch can vary, as can temperature & dirt, so I attempted to eliminate as much as possible, eg by taking multiple readings.

Of these, digical 2 was found to be inaccurate whilst digical 1 always read slightly high. Or was it low? In any case, with a reading tolerance of ± 1 digit and 0.01mm, I did not think much of them. And then when I found the rate at which they ate batteries, I stopped using them.
 
The 0.02mm dial caliper was found to be consistently reading low, so was given away.
The 0.05mm Vernier caliper was found to be dead on. As was the 0.01 dial caliper by Starrett which was bought to replace the 0.02mm dial caliper and the two digital calipers.

The metric micrometers were found to be either dead on or reading +0.005 mm at maximum reading. Even the imperial was reasonably accurate. With these, knowing the maximum variation, I compensate as necessary, eg at 12.5mm I add 0.0025mm. Ok, I know it may not be correct, but it is the best I can do.
 
As has been said, there is the problem of taking accurate readings with the narrow jaws of the calipers: in fact, it was this difficulty which caused me to get out the micrometer and thus discover the various discrepancies. I now use, firstly the 0.05 vernier for general purpose measurements followed by either the micrometers or the Starrett dial caliper as seems most appropriate.
 
I still have the digital calipers, and do occasionally use the better of the two, but only when the measurement is not required to be particularly accurate.
 
Anybody want an inaccurate Workzone caliper from Aldi?
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
<< First < Prev 1 2 3 Next > Last >>

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Sign up to our Newsletter

Sign up to our newsletter and get a free digital issue.

You can unsubscribe at anytime. View our privacy policy at www.mortons.co.uk/privacy

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
cowells
Sarik
MERIDIENNE EXHIBITIONS LTD
Shopping Partners
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest

 

Donate

donate