MOT - am I being taken for a ride?

Could well be, or it might be damage due to testing the brakes.

The MOT brake test is pretty brutal, enough to pop a hydraulic brake line in my Citroen BX. Looked OK from underneath but was rusted on the blind side. Maybe an ABS sensor went intermittent during the brake test and failed completely later taking out the instrument cluster as well (hopefully temporarily).

To find out it will be necessary to have the car fixed: I'd use another garage to get an independent view.

If they broke the car fitting the blower, I think it's worth pursuing them for compensation. I'm more doubtful of the car was broken by doing the MOT. For example, the first MOT Garage Terms and Conditions I found on the web include:

Your use of the Service is at your sole risk. The Service is provided on an “AS IS” and “AS AVAILABLE” basis. The Service is provided without warranties of any kind, whether express or implied, including, but not limited to, implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, non-infringement or course of performance.

A great deal depends on the relationship, both ways. Garages may not want to do repeat business with awkward cuss customers! My garage is good because it's a well-established business that depends on local customers and it's reputation matters. I had bother with a city garage years ago. Different set-up entirely: located on a busy main road with plenty of passing customers. Still trading last time I passed, and might be trustworthy now, but I won't use them again.

Dave

Inoperative speedo could be as simple as not seating the connector properly when refitting the instrument cluster.

It would help to know what the car is, as the ABS fault could be relatively easy to diagnose - the Bosch ECUs used on 2000ish BMWs/Audis/Omegas/etc are known for faulty joints and can be repaired for far less than a new replacement. Losing the speedo is one of the associated faults. These systems require more than a basic OBD code reader to diagnose, but have been around long enough that any competent garage will should be able to do the work.

I've had several cars without working speedos pass the MOT.

The brake test is hardly brutal, and if a rusty pipe bursts during one then the test is serving its purpose. Far better than for it to fail in service. Additionally, I think any brake pipe that's been greased to extend its life should be an immediate fail.

The OP's garage doesn't sound very customer friendly...

Although a faulty speedometer is an MOT failure it is not actually tested, unless the vehicle is being road tested (usually only necessary when the brakes cannot be tested on a rolling road).
If the speedometer is not present on vehicles for which it is mandatory, or obviously inoperable, then it will fail.

An illuminated ABS warning light is a failure (as are engine and light warning lights - the latter can show if LED bulbs are used to replace old-school filament bulbs).

The testers' manual can be found here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles
It's worth looking at if you get a failure which seems incorrect, or you're taking an old or unusual vehicle for test.

.

But if Robin wants to submit the form that I linked earlier … that’s one thing he must not do.

MichaelG.

Thanks for replies which, on balance, seem to support my suspicion that they mucked something up and aren't giving me the full story. The garage (the only 'serious' garage in my small town) has served me well over the last 20 years or so, but when I asked the receptionist when they could look at it again she said they had only two mechanics working due to hols &c so the best she could offer was 10 days hence. I suspect that these two guys have been under some pressure to get jobs done quickly and I didn't recognise either - quite youthful so not long-timers.

I'll just bite the bullet and pay up to get it fixed I suppose. With luck the boss (who is a reasonable chap) will be back by then. Could threaten to tell the tale on local Facebook, but I don't like confrontation (or social media).

The car is a 2010 Vauxhall Astra which I bought in 2013. It's basic but has been extremely reliable - apart from tyres, wiper blades, brake pads and the odd bulb or two it has sailed through MOT's hitherto. Maybe it's getting to the age when it should be replaced though.

Dave (SoD) - if you have managed to keep a BX alive for this long I can only gasp in wonder. I had three (in succession, not at the same time!) and loved them but was defeated by the cost of keeping the microbore hydraulics going. Went on to C5s, again lovely but ruinously expensive to run/maintain. Hence the Astra after I retired - basic but cheap to run.

Robin.

Edited By Robin Graham on 14/09/2022 23:00:16

The trouble with mot testers in garages is they feel pressurised by by the management to provide added income

My opinion - Robin should get it fixed by someone else and get on with his life.
Forget about admin tripe like filling in forms for other admin geeks to paw over forever and make a big issue about how complicated it all is.

You could try Citizen’s Advice for a bit of info, I think they are able to refer you to Trading Standards if appropriate.

.

I support your right to express that opinion, Clive

But if the Test Centre is ‘a bad-un’ it might do more for the common good to have them investigated.

MichaelG.

One of my few pleasures is telling my children "welcome to being a proper grown-up"! Having passed the fun stage of young adulthood they're having to deal with responsibilities clouded by wobbly health, earning a living, family issues, other people underperforming, mortgages, repairs, rapidly rising inflation and bills, bills, bills!

Michael pointing out this problem has a Catch-22 dimension is just another pin-prick in the miserable world of motoring hassle!

So I rather agree with with Clive, because in Duffer-land:

1. If the cause is clearly wrongdoing, I usually pursue the wrong doer on principle. All that is necessary for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing. But!!!
2. I don't start fights unless the evidence is solid, the cost to me is proportionate, and I have a good chance of winning. I avoid conflict where the risk and cost of losing is high, emotionally or in money. At the end of the day, it's business.

Robin's evidence against the garage is suggestive but not conclusive. Nor have they attempted to profit from the situation, which is the usual con-trick - making money from unnecessary repair work. Further, it's necessary to understand the garage's terms and conditions, and I quoted an example which says: Your use of the Service is at your sole risk. The complaint may be built on sand when it comes to liability.

My analysis:

1. The cause is not clearly wrongdoing
2. The evidence isn't solid
3. Depending on the contract agreed between Robin and the garage there may be no case in law. (What are the garage's Terms and Conditions)
4. If the garage reject the claim, the cost and hassle of pursuing them could easily exceed the cost of the repair, and the chance of winning is moderate at best.

This list of negatives suggests to me that a subtle approach is required, if at all.

If I were Robin, I wouldn't invest emotionally in this. If I proceeded at all, I'd lean on the garage's desire to keep customers happy rather than attack with all guns blazing. Probably send a letter asking for a personal interview with the manager, explaining why I'm unhappy and asking them to rectify the situation. Writing and eyeballs are complementary ways of applying pressure and more powerful in combination!

Before the interview, I'd think carefully about what I was going to say, probably taking the line that I'm Mr Reasonable, but all my friends agree I've been hard done by, that a dispute might damage their reputation, and will certainly cause them cost and hassle!

I'd also think carefully about how to handle all their likely responses, which could be anything between abject surrender and thrown out by a gorilla with a big spanner. A compromise offer is quite likely, such as you pay for the parts, we pay for the labour. A compromise would appeal strongly to me.

So I'd schmooze rather than explode and retreat in the event of stiff resistance. Retreat because I don't think this one is worth starting a war over! Dunno about Robin, but I've got better things to do with my time than get emotionally entangled in a row over a defective car, especially if the garage are determined to put up a fight. If they decide to resist, remember a bigger business will have considerable experience of dealing with disgruntled customers and know the ropes whilst a small garage might be difficult to deal with because it's run by a bad-tempered idiot!

Tactically in these situations, it's usually best to start soft but firm with a clear case and negotiate. Have all the facts to hand, and be prepared for rebuttals. Shouty-shouty personalities often think aggression from the outset works best, but they're naive because an unfriendly approach often scuppers any chance of compromise. However, a great deal depends on the opposition - part of the skill behind negotiation is assessing their strengths and weaknesses so that carrot and stick are applied appropriately.

Dave

Robin,

Where abouts in the UK are you? If you are in Hampshire I have dealer level diagnostic equipment for Vauxhalls which can read out the ABS unit and determine the fault that is causing the light to come on. I worked for a main dealer in the late 90's / early 2000s so I am familiar with the common faults.

Which model of Astra do you have - you say 2010 but that could be either the Astra-H (Mk5, 2005-2010) or Astra-J (Mk6, 2010-2015). If your instrument panel doesn't have a temperature gauge, then it is likely an Astra-H.

From the sound of it, I would think that the intermittent ABS light coming on was due to a problem with a connection to a wheel speed sensor. During the MOT the weight of the car would have been removed on the ramp to check wheel bearings / suspension etc. This would have fully extended the suspension and may have finally broken a connection on the ABS wiring or slightly parted the connector, hence how the light is now on permanently. I cannot explain how this has affected the display in the instrument panel as this has separate fuses and is connected to a different CAN bus to receive information.

Anthony

i am going to side with the garage with this one . they reported the an interment ABS fault most likely a fatigued wire on one of the sensors its only a mater of time before this fails completely and most likely the cause of the speedo failing. secondly at 12 years old this car would be considered as an old banger [newer than any of mine] that lacking in maintenance. ie it failed on 2 tyres and you say you know nothing about car maintenance. forget it and move on it ain't worth the stress.

"I had a similar issue with a trusted local garage. They changed the front spring on SWMBOs Focus"

Trust the singular was a miss spelling Robert? Few years ago a main agent tried the same with me. Had strong words with the service manager about this. Spring only changed in pairs.

Regards Ian.

O.K. ___ I merely informed Robin that an appeals process is available, and might be of interest to him.

MichaelG.

That's all well and good, and I would only ever change springs in pairs on my own car. But many customers will not pay for the other side unless it has broken too - it can be hard enough convincing them that driving to the garage was what wrecked the tyre as well. Even on the cars where broken springs are a fact of ownership(Fiestas, C3s, Lagunas etc), the other side isn't guaranteed to fail.

Apparently.a lot of springs break because the end coils have been left "as sheared" rather than ground to a taper, or seated on an angled face.

This arrangement places a lot of stress on the end coils and encourages failure.

When we had Renault 5s, the seats were angled and in 17 years never had a failure.

Apparently Japanese manufacturers either taper the end coils or , similarly, use angled seats. Both our Yaris did not break springs in the 12 years that we had them, unlike some of the European cars owned by friends.

"If only they were as reliable!"

Howard

If the boss is reasonable, have a reasonable chat with him when he gets back. It is very, very possible that there might be something loose after blower repair - should be an easy fix and he shouldn't charge. It is possible it is coincidence and parts need replacing - in which case he should charge. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt one more time and trust him to continue to be reasonable. Otherwise, you don't have a handy garage. Take this opportunity to build a relationship rather than wreck one.

And, things on old cars can break just by looking at em. Every time I fix something on my van, something else breaks. If something is 99% of the way to failure, then the mechanic tips it over that 1%, it doesn't seem fair to hold him totally responsible. 

Edited By jaCK Hobson on 15/09/2022 16:42:55

Hi, car electrics can be frustrating at times, but more so these days. Last year my 2010 Astra's battery gave up, one morning I went out to it, only to find that the battery was so flat that not even one dashboard light came on, let alone the courtesy light, although I had used the car the day before. So, though I was not in a red-hot hurry, I did need to use it and so I attached my charger and went and had a cup of tea and after about an hour I managed to start the car but, the radio didn't come on automatically as normal and the head-up display was completely blank, but the radio did switch on manually but still no display and none of the controls on the steering wheel worked. My first thoughts were using the battery charger without removing the cables to the car must have cooked the informant system. but the radio worked, and all the car's systems work as normal, and no fuses has blown. Having looked at the battery's magic eye, which indicated that a replacement was needed, so I got a new one, but my dilemma was that maybe if I took the old battery off and then put the new one on, the radio code might be lost, and I wouldn't be able to put the code in as those controls didn't seem to function, therefore I hooked up another old battery that would keep a voltage on the radio while changing battery's and I didn't lose the use of the radio.

I had to take it for a MOT a week or so later and I asked them their views and they suggested that there may be an internal fuse in the head-up display, but finding out how to get to it seemed an awful lot of bother, so I didn't bother about it, until about three months ago when I had nothing better to do, and so I took out the radio with a lot of caution as I still didn't want to disconnect the battery. I eventually got the head-up display out and looked inside, no internal fuse no blown components or burn PCB tracks. I then had the thought of connecting it up with the display outside its box and was going to get my multi meter to check if there was any voltage getting to the board, but just as I was about to open the door, the door light was on, and so I disconnected the display, and the door light went out, then reconnecting the display the door light was on again, and just when I was about to go and get my meter again, I noticed the display was on and switching the radio on, the radio station name was also displayed. So, everything was refitted back into place, opened the door and the display lite up as it always used too, and then switching on the ignition, the radio dually switched on and all the steering wheel controls for the radio also worked again. I replaced nothing new, repaired nothing at all, and there were no signs of any dirty connection's where the wires from the display plugged in as that is very well shrouded. My only conclusion was that because the battery was flat and there wasn't enough power to lite the display, the informant system may have remembered not to display even when full power was restored, and it reminded me of the saying "have you tried switching it off, waiting a moment and switching it back on" which most of have probably done with computers in past times. Needless to say, it is all still working just as it should.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 15/09/2022 20:29:48

The OP needs to talk nicely to the boss at the garage when he gets back.
As I said previously the cost of fixing a speedometer on a 12 year old Astra could be more than the car is worth.

On SWMBOs Focus only one spring was replaced. This is not an issue with modern coil springs as long as the springs were standard type and ride height is the same both sides after replacment of the broken one. Dampers (shock absorbers) are another matter. I would only ever replace those in pairs.

Robert G8RPI.

Very true. But the thing to appreciate is that newer car electrics are nothing like those of old, and there are often complicated and unseen interactions between seemingly unconnected devices that are linked together by CAN buses or other networks. Once communication errors occur on a bus due to a module being disconnected or entering a fault state, other modules which rely on information from the first one enter default states to ensure safety or a minimum level of functionality.

I expect in your case the display shut down or entered a indeterminate state due to low supply voltage. Disconnecting and refitting the multi-plug was enough to reset it. You could have safely changed the battery over without the hassle of maintaining the supply voltage with another source - many newer vehicles do not have a radio code as such any more. The modules are 'coded' or 'married' to each other by VIN number or other security code which is automatically checked when battery power is restored. If modules from a stolen vehicle are fitted without recoding then the codes do not match and they will not work. It needs dealer level diagnostic tools or equivalent to divorce or marry units together.

Anthony