Is it really a joke

There's so much wrong with that article I don't have the interest in refuting it all. Point 1- ev charging v garage. You don't need a facility with huge underground tanks so chargers can be in any carpark. For overnight charging 7.4kw chargers are fine. For fast charging on the go a 50kw charger would be thought slow. 150,250 even 350kw chargers exist but with reality of what batteries can take and charge reduction as they fill then 120kw chargers will do and fill a 75kwh pack from 20 to 80% in half an hour.

2000cars in 12hrs = 160'ish per hour so 80 fast chargers is more than enough. Anyone know of a motorway services or city carpark with 80 spaces? There are 24 tesla chargers at the Heathrow Hilton already with speeds from 120 to 250kw without West London being plunged in darkness (and no petrol). It's perfectly doable.

A couple of chargers appeared outside my Village Hall and Community Shop last month. Not seen anyone plugged in yet but it will come.

Many EV-fears echo what was said when motor cars first appeared on British roads. Can't happen because:

• All the roads will have to be tarmacked
• Cars can't mingle with horses, bicycles, trams or traction engines
• Policemen will always stop them on sight to check speed and documentation
• Much too expensive and unreliable
• Driving one in winter risks exposure (and female internals can't cope with speed)
• World supply of rubber for tyres is insufficient
• Can't be left unattended on the street
• Never be enough trained chauffeurs
• Have to run on coal because oil has to be imported
• Nowhere to buy motor-spirit, have punctures fixed, or the engine mended
• Produce toxic fumes
• Railways are much faster, more comfortable and can move heavy goods through an efficient national distribution network

For some reason, Victorians couldn't comprehend 30 million privately owned cars, artificial rubber, roads almost universally metalled, with dual-carriageways, motorways, petrol stations, and no horses, trams or traction engines to speak of. And no Empire! Just as we today cannot comprehend the scale of change over the next century. Quite a few of our sacred cows are heading for the chopping block, whether we like it or not.

To misquote LP Hartley, 'The past and the future are foreign countries, they do things differently there.'

Time to get on with fixing energy and other resource issues rather than hoping they will magically go away - the problem is urgent.

Dave

Just one point. I have a 100A supply. I also have storage heaters and a 3kw immersion heater running on the off peak. If, and it's a largish if, I were to use all of the heaters, plus the immersion heater, I would draw something like 67A leaving 33A for normal usage. Now bear in mind that we also run our washing machine at night, and you can see that there isn't that much headroom for a high power EV charger. Even running a "standard" 7kW charger could take me perilously close to 100A. All figures are approximate and worst case, but even so, taking the best case it would still be a very high loading. What's more, I've a sneaky suspicion that we may be sharing a feed with our next door neighbour even though we are all detached.

Frankly, it's a nonsense.

Peter G. Shaw

Each house may have a supply with a 100A fuse, but the distribution network is not designed to provide everyone with that simultaneously. In fact, historically the network will have been designed at 1.5kW per property so it won’t take many people trying to run a 7.4kW charger at the same time to overload the network.

Stuart

Frankly, your post is nonsense to me.

In simplicity, you don’t need to run everything all the time.

How much energy can a hot water cylinder hold? How long do you need to run your immersion?

How often would you do long distances in your (then electric) car? Each hour should replenish your car battery by about ‘30 miles’. Fast DC charging is available - if really needed.

Many houses can generate some energy with PV. Not always at the best time when heating is required.

Many electric heating systems use a tariff where some recharging can be carried out in the early afternoon.

I doubt you are on the same phase as your next door neighbour. That feed would obviously be good for 200A . Doubtless some near neighbours would all be on the same phase of the supply - it is inevitable.

A 100A fuse is not going to blow at exactly 100A - more likely a short term 150A might not blow it.

Concentrating on extra insulation is likely a good ploy - reducing heating needs can work wonders. Fitting PV panels and a storage battery could likely very much reduce your reliance on the grid supply.

Of course, there are averages and ranges for all statistics. Average annual private car mileage is around 8000 - that is 22 miles per day. Some houses may have two vehicles, of course.

As I see it, from your post, you don’t really want to help yourself with your future energy needs?

I work for a large DNO and they decreed last year that any new electric supply we now install has to be three phase to cope with extra demand on the system in the future. This is even if the existing mains / transformer is single phase, we have still have to lay new three phase cables to the property and fit a 3phase cutout.

There was a chap from National Grid on the radio a few months ago. He said that they weren't worried about increased demands from charging electric vehicles - much of the load (managed by smart chargers/meters) would be in the small hours when other demand was low, and existing infrastructure could easily handle this.

He did say that a widespread switch from gas to electric heating would be more of a problem, and National Grid are working to increase capacity to cope with this when it comes. Improving insulation in domestic properties would presumably help to mitigate this.

Maybe the biggest joke about the article is that cars have lived past their usefulness?

This struck me when viewing a Youtube video of Vancouver, taken (about) 100 years ago on the back of a streetcar, and spliced in was views of now. 100 years ago; open streets, people walking/cycling, the odd horse and wagon.

Now? Gridlock.

100 years from now???? (the current trend can't continue unless roads are like 10 stories high)

I love my car, but I'm getting to think that the "15 minute city" has its future. (Not to mention that cars are something like the biggest killers of humans in the world)

I don't think that anyone knows what the future will be, certainly the 1950s "helicopter in every garage" and a "robot in every kitchen" has not really come to fruition!

Just my abysmal input to match the abysmal weather we have today.

NDIY,

Agreed that I don't need to run everything at once, but, what you are forgetting is that Economy 7 switches on everything at the same time. Therefore the worst case would be an instantaneous load of about 80A. Fortunately, the washer is switched on when we remember, and we don't use our spare bedroom heater.

The immersion heater runs for, if I remember correctly, about 3/4 of an hour, so could be deferred with a delay switch of some description, but that costs money - see last paragraph.

Mileage. You have no idea about our mileage. Currently, we are averaging about 10K p.a which is actually less than the 13K p.a before Covid, however, a lot of those miles are anything up to 60m return. Plus, there are a few hills of varying steepness around here.

Solar power? Not unless I'm forced into it by government decree. And even then I would leave it as long as possible.

As already said, I'm on Economy 7, not Economy 10.

I accept that next door most likely will not be on the same phase, but what about the heating effect of taking large amounts of current albeit on two phases through the same cable. Stewart Smith 5 makes a good point about the cables.

Agreed that a 100A fuse will not fail at 100A. When I was studying these things, a goodly number of years ago, I, and others in the same course were told that the fuse should carry its rated current for ever, fail instantly at double its rated current, and fail at some indeterminate point between the two values. Now these were small fuses, 0.5A, 1.0A, 1.5A, that sort of order. Large 100A fuses may well be different, but that I do not know.

Final comment.

As I see it, from your post, you don’t really want to help yourself with your future energy needs?

True.

As someone who is 3 months off 79, and has cancer, fitting solar panels, backup/storage batteries/fancy controllers or indeed anything else of that nature, frankly is not worthwhile for me as I will never get the money back and I'm simply not prepared to spend good money on something I will not get the benefit from - unless as is currently happening to my windows, I need to have some repairs done. I don't particularly care about the next owners of this property - what they do is up to them, they can spend as many thousands as they wish - I'm not. And before you say it, yes, the house won't fetch as much. And indeed there could be problems with the EPC. So be it.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

Interesting. But just wait until your ev is permanently connected to the internet and can be switched off by the government whenever it feels like! 🤫🤣🫣

In addition to tracking you via a chip in your pocket and listening to all your conversations and watching you at home via PC or TV and checking your front door camera or tracking you via CCTV ?

Nah, It'll never happen, folk wouldn't stand for it....

But just wait until your ev is permanently connected to the internet and can be switched off by the government whenever it feels like! 🤫🤣🫣

Been talked about for a long number of years. Indeed, there was once a serious proposal that all new cars would be fitted with such a device from a certain date, 2019 I believe. The idea was called Intelligent Speed Adaptor and would limit the car's maximum speed to the prevailing road speed limit. Or whatever someone remote decided!

Actually, I think it might have been an EU requirement.

Peter G. Shaw

The 100A limit is irrelevant as only Elon Musk can afford to soak that amount on a daily basis.
The E7 turn on load is being mitigated already by smart meters that can have their turn on time remotely spread out. The system already handles the instant turn on from the old crude mechanical switches so new installations only have to have a few of the heaters fitted with a delay and heat pumps replacing gas boilers can be made to spread their load.
More intelligent devices will start to adjust their turn on and ramp up the load they present which is probably already done by car chargers Since the smart meters transmit instantaneous consumption to the little consumer display this data could be used by smart devices to control themselves appropriately.
One of the things that ought to be done is assessing gas and electricity consumption per house based on the type of property to detect people who are obviously heating excessively or have inadequate insulation. They can be further assessed with infra red cameras to identify the problem area and targeted for remedial education.

Sometime after they fitted trackers to all the company vehicles, I got a phonecall from my boss -

Boss: Why are you doing 300mph through Sittingbourne?

Me: You said the job was urgent, and I don't pay for the diesel.

Boss: Click

Me: Pillock

Who's going to pay for this 'remedial education'-mandated insulation ? I'm 75, and I live in a 150 year old house that leaks heat like a sieve. I've done what I can by way of secondary glazing, draft prevention etc., but the main problem is the roof - the bedrooms are within the roof-space, so there's no attic. I'd have to have the roof stripped, specialist insulation put in between the joists, and then rebuilt. It's currently a perfectly good roof in all respects except insulation. The cost of the above work would be in the tens of thousands, money I haven't got and, being retired, I'm not going to borrow it. I won't live long enough to repay the cost of the job with reduced heating bills. Governments promise help, grants etc. but it's all the usual puffery - last grant scheme would only apply to houses with tiled roofs, but mine (like most houses round here) is slate. I know what the problem is, what I don't need is some jumped-up council official giving me 'remedial education' - give me some grant money instead !

It's a legitimate concern. Not all governments are cuddly democracies who can be called to account!

However, turning an EV off isn't much different from what can already be done. If a cuddly democracy wants to stop you driving it can:

• Increase Tax until you can't afford to drive
• Ration fuel, licences, and car purchases
• Revoke your licence
• Stop repairing roads, closing them, and introducing congestion charges
• Make it too difficult to park, or make progress
• Put you under arrest at home with an ankle tag, or in jail. New offences can be created!
• Install number plate or electronic recognition systems.
• Fit cars with GPS and remote activated kill switches
• Install rising bollards and deploy stinger spikes

Disreputable governments can go much further, up to hanging offenders from the nearest tree after torturing them as an example to others.

In one way the US is well-placed to exploit renewable energy and EVs: they have plenty of sunny land for solar panels! On the downside, it's difficult to see how an EV will be good enough for the folk who live in large empty areas like Montana. But I don't see EVs as a one size fits all solution: rather they can be used in large numbers in in densely populated areas to free up IC fuel for people who can't use EVs. It's a management problem, where politics don't help.

Dave

Peoples behaviour with insulation grants can be a little odd.

The first I had was free roof insulation in a 30's house when 4" was fitted.

2nd I had a top up in an 1988 house to bring the 4" up to 6"

3rd I had in the same 1988 house was additional cavity wall beads blown in on top of the existing 1" foam sheet.

None of the neighbours took up any of the offers of this free work paid for by the utilities (and tacked on everyone's bill) at either house. Too good to be true and you can't get owt for nowt???

Bob,

My Grandmother had the same roof hot, as hell in summer and frozen solid in winter.

Having had a big ceiling re plaster boarded properly when all the joint tape fell off it might be possible to fit Batts from the inside and re board and plaster. DIY apart from plastering, but not for the over 70's and pretty messy but a damn sight cheaper than having the roof off.

Hi All,

hope this is not off thread but will the new enormous energy price hikes make fitting a Tesla Powerwall or similar

more viable in terms of payback time?

does anyone here have one or know someone who does please?

cheers Martin

Remember that politician soundbites about what "we" are going do by "when" are not necessarily based on either knowledge or logic. And certainly without any certain knowledge of "how"

As usual, making promises for others to keep.

Just be suitably sceptical, and think things through.

At school, one morning, our Physics master asked if we had heard the announcement on the 8 o'clock news that the sun had a temperature of 5 million degrees Centigrade?

And then, "How was it measured?"

Since then, in my view, very little can safely be taken at face value. We all have our prejudices and hobby horses.

Howard

In addition to Bob Unitt's valid objection to that, I'd say the difficulty would be deciding fairly who is heating excessively. A house-bound elderly couple with a range of health problems are going to need their home to be warmer and for longer than a young couple next door in an identical house who are out at work all day. Would allowance be made for these and other, sometimes much finer, distinctions before the conclusion is reached that the household is "obviously heating excessively"? Even if the official policy was that such distinctions were meant to be taken into account, in practice the criteria would almost certainly be inadequate for producing fair outcomes.

Evidence that this would be the case is apparent from the way the matter of grants touched on in Bob's post is handled in practice.

A family close to me was judged eligible for both boiler and insulation grants. Four different heating companies came to assess the present boiler situation, hoping no doubt that it would be a matter of a simple combi swap. However, when they discovered that there was a 40-year-old floor-standing conventional boiler on a one-pipe system (Worcester will issue no warranty on a combi fitted to a one-pipe system) they all fled, uttering transparently insincere promises that they would be in touch soon with a start-date.

None of them ever got back in touch. So a vulnerable household, arguably in greater need of a central heating upgrade than most, was summarily abandoned by a system that was conceived in the first place expressly to provide for such vulnerable persons' needs.