KWh question

One feature that a smart meter provides to the supplier is the ability to disconnect the supply remotely (avoiding the need to gain access to the property). Just like with direct debits one has to trust that the institution will play by the rules, but it is possible to end up in a weak position if things go wrong e.g. following a malware attack.

Edited By Andrew Entwistle on 04/08/2017 21:23:02

I researched this topic some time ago. Apparently 'the Industry' have managed to get a clause included in the specification for the Smart Meter system that where consumers opt out, their supplier can charge for manual meter reading. This confused me, I thought my tariff standing charge already included an amount to pay for the meter reader?!?! I'm sure the present meter reader isn't doing it for nothing? Surely they wouldn't have the neck to charge me twice?!?!

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

It's all about control, and extracting money from users.

You will not have any choice whether you want one or not, they will become compulsory within a year.

With a smart meter fitted in your home, the electricity companies will be able to instantly jack up the electric prices remotely, overnight, and not even bother telling you about it.

When they decide that the smart meter is to be directly linked to your bank account by instant direct debit,

that's worry time.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4725424/Government-brings-new-energy-rules.html

.

At the moment, I've got the electricity board's meter, which measures the total consumption and my own meter, which measures the workshop's consumption (Computer servers, Aircon, actually doing stuff...). Both meters are actually identical ones made in the GEC Meters St Leonard's works in Stafford, but the workshop one was got via EBay.

I'd be happy with a 'Smart meter', but It would be nice if it could monitor several separate circuits as standard.

They don't need a smart meter to do that, but with or without one it would be illegal.

Unlike petrol pumps you can't just drive to the next energy supplier, so by law they have to give notice of tariff changes and you have to be able to change supplier without penalty.

The impetus behind smart meters is increasing efficiency, and even though that means less money for the distributors they are more worried about the penalties and consequences of running out of generating capacity.

This is all part of an 'internet of things' policy that will see freezers switch off at peak times (unless their temperature rises too high) and run hard when electricity is in over-supply.

The one thing that the smart meters have done for me is let my wife see how much she waste by leaving things on standby, I can see on a day to day basis how much energy we have used and I don't have to crawl under the pantry shelf to read the meter's.

Edited By martin perman on 05/08/2017 09:28:21

How very sad it should come to this.

it's a government promoted myth that a smart meter will save you money.
Because the government wants you to have one installed.
You will use the same amount of electricity whether you have a new meter or not.

The only way to cut down on your electricity costs, is to turn thing off or don't use them.

Any evidence to support this assertion? As far as I've seen so far they simply measure the voltage and current. If they also had to incorporate a 200-300A contactor, that would be a different beast.

Lots of opinions and half truths as ever.

Take a look at a few manuals if you want to understand what they do rather than ignorantly opining about them.

Murray

There is sooo many peculiar ideas on this topic.

If you want to convert gas to leccy, get a fuel cell pack. Expensive but 65% efficient. Look up "Ceres" fuel cells or search out the relevant "Fully Charged" U-toob vid.

Grid energy from wind or PV does not have a fuel cost. Yes it is subsidised, but likely no more than the dirty fossil fuel burners where the clean-up costs are ignored. So what is the grid efficiency for renewables?

Energy efficiency meters have been around for years. Smart meters are different. Sending back readings (likely at your cost) at any time or times can/will provide the suppliers with more information than you might think - like when you turn on the kettle, per eg.

The word is offered a smart meter. You can decline it. I for one haver already done so and will not be connecting any appliances to the Internet.

What fun, hack all the freezers so that in the summer when everyone comes home from their holidays to discover wet freezer!

When our Honeywell AS300P smart meter was installed I asked the installer why the meter didn't just use a current transformer for metering, rather than having high current tails in and out (probably for better tamper protection). I was told by the installer that the meter incorporated a contactor that could be operated remotely via the attached AM110R communications module and that this was to be able to carry out disconnection without the expense of arranging entry into a property. The Honeywell brochure does mention an integrated contactor, so I had no reason to doubt the assertion of the installer.

Andrew.

The quoted cost of installing smart meters nationwide was £195.00 on every households bills, I am sure that as with every "establishment" quoted project cost this is an underestimate and we will never be told the true cost per household. I believe Denmark has completed their smart meter installation programme ( far smaller population the UK) and the conclusion reached was that their programme had not benefitted their consumers and effectively was a waste of money.

Dave

The quoted cost of installing smart meters nationwide was £195.00 on every households bills, I am sure that as with every "establishment" quoted project cost this is an underestimate and we will never be told the true cost per household. I believe Denmark has completed their smart meter installation programme ( far smaller population the UK) and the conclusion reached was that their programme had not benefitted their consumers and effectively was a waste of money.

Dave

I daren't open the smart meter, but it looks like there is plenty of room for it to enclose for example a 43 mm x 32 mm x 21 mm 120A Johnson Electric Ledex EM100 remote disconnect relay. There appears to be a new IEC standard that covers latching relays for smart meter load switching IEC62055-31. The meter was installed on behalf of Scottish Power in Manchester, but  since I changed supplier the smart functionality is no longer used and I am back to submitting readings online - what a complete waste of money, unless the meter can be firmware updated to be compatible with the new supplier in the future. 

Andrew.

Edited By Andrew Entwistle on 05/08/2017 13:28:41

Edited By Andrew Entwistle on 05/08/2017 13:49:59

Murray,

I find most of your postings very informative and from a similar viewpoint to my own, so I was a bit taken aback when you stated that I was guilty of ignorant opining for simply passing on information that was not opinion or hearsay. I do enjoy visiting this forum, but I have seen too often an unnecessary level of hostility towards posters. I am thick skinned enough to not let this affect my use of the forum but I don't think this is true for all prospective posters.

Andrew.

Checked out a Smart Meter manual as you requested and it states..

(Quote)

Contactor Disconnect

The main 100A contactor can be  disconnected locally or remotely by the Utility.

This can be driven directly or driven by the meter at load limiting thresholds

(endquote)

Whose half truth ?

Edited By Brian Ess on 05/08/2017 15:40:18

Edited By Brian Ess on 05/08/2017 15:41:26

When I heard about smart meters a while ago I was a bit puzzled as the talk suggested it was something new.

We had a smart meter fitted some years ago and I remember all the same talk about benefits and getting a common industry standard for their design.

From our point of view it made no difference, we only use power we need, give or take a bit of paranoid meter watching. Declined our latest offer for a new one, our previous one became useless as a smart meter when we left our then supplier. Still functions as a normal meter.

Bill D.