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Moving a lathe

Moving a Harrison M300 lathe!

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Matthew Chapman 1	26/11/2011 21:20:11
7 forum posts	Help! I have aquired a Harrison M300 lathe at a good price for me. The seller can get it into a van but then im on my own getting it out my end, down a small incline, and into my garage! Having looked it up on the net i can see they weigh approx 650 kg! Any advice? Im thinking of hiring an engine hoist or scissor palletiser? Many thanks Matt
Jon	26/11/2011 23:51:27
1001 forum posts 49 photos	I have an M300 its no mean feat moving and think again. In the removable gap bed theres an M10 or M12 thread to screw in an eye. This is centre balance point for lifting, move carriage to balance. I would be worried about the chap getting it in a van, you dont want to disturb the bed to stand and would have concerns whether using head stock to move/lift the lathe. Then theres the problem of getting it out. Hoist no good it needs to slide out down a ramp, best way tell van to drive off while attaching other end thats how my last lathe 140 same weight was fetched off after collecting. The other problem is the two ends of the base, with rollers you wouldnt be able to move more than a few inches, earlier Harrisons 11" and 140 you could move with one hand with 4 rollers, same weight. I hired a trailer even better the mini digger types but total weight would exceed nearly all car towing limits. Engine crane 1Tonne brand new shop around about £110 plus shackles etc and an eye. A good crow/breaker bar no joke need 6 ft minimum we had an 8ft one and struggled. Removed as much weight off the lathe as we could, splash tray, coolant, motor, tail stock, light, chuck etc all off and went in separtate car. Probably weighed 580kg then. Definately a two man job with engine crane, the lathe will swing as its moved, then you will have the problem of the legs getting under the trailer, so in as far as you can get then lever it on on hoping it dont dig in. May be worth making a trolley to wheel it down and into position, supermarket wheels will do the trick, just.
ady	27/11/2011 06:57:31
612 forum posts 50 photos	These things for pallets they have in supermarkets can lift up to 3 tonnes Sounds like you've got a heck of a job ahead of you.
JasonB	27/11/2011 07:37:26
25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles	Have a look in KWIL's album, there is a pic of how he moved his M300, Hopefully he will see this post and advise on lifting. You really need a small flatbed with HIAB or a tail lift to get it of the transport. J
Wolfie	27/11/2011 09:03:42
502 forum posts	I've just done this barely a week ago with the S&B featured elsewhere. We took a trailer up and put the lathe which weighed 3/4 ton in the trailer with a fork lift truck at his end. I had the same problem as you, how to get it off at my end. In the event I got a mate that drives for a well known builders merchant to lift it off with his HIAB onto wooden blocks then we simply manouvered it with a pallet barrow like the one in the pic up there. Engine hoists no good, not cos they can't lift it but cos they can't lift high enough. Mind you that was my lathe, I don't know how big yours is. Tail lift would have been my next move, but make sure its rated for the right weight. Small transit type ones are only rated at half a ton.
elanman	27/11/2011 09:44:05
47 forum posts 4 photos	Matt, There are several ways, 1,Pay for it to be moved . Costs but could save your back!!! 2,Where are you in the world? maybe a gang from this site would help? 3,Read this, lots of useful info. http://www.anf.nildram.co.uk/workshop/m300/m300_moving.html They are a couple of firms near Leeds that move small machine tools etc, I'm using them in a couple of weeks some may have some recommendations. Cheers John
steamdave	27/11/2011 09:55:17
526 forum posts 45 photos	I moved my workshop, which included an M300, from England to Ireland. All machines were loaded into a 7.5t lorry with a 1t tail lift. A combination of a pallet truck and 2t engine hoist (for the extra outreach) proved to be perfectly satisfactory. As far as I know, a 7.5t lorry is the smallest with the required power in the tail lift for your lathe. If you consider a Hiab, make sure it has sufficient outreach for your needs. You will still need the pallet truck and/or engine hoist. The pallet truck is not long enough to support the weight of the lathe if loaded lengthways. The engine hoist, lifting from the screw in eye (use a certified eye) has barely sufficient height to clear the bottom frame of the hoist. Using a sling round the bed would probably result in even less lifting height. Dave The Emerald Isle
JohnF	27/11/2011 13:38:48
1243 forum posts 202 photos	Hi Matthew, Depends if you have access to a farm tractor but we shifted a couple of Smart and Brown 1025 lathes [just over 1 ton each] useing a tractor fitted with fork lift arms. If you live rural you may have a pal in farming? Also moved a Bridgeport mill with same. Once on the drive/garage 3/4 pieces of scafolding pipe make good rollers. good luck--John.
Andrew Johnston	27/11/2011 13:40:07
7061 forum posts 719 photos	It is perfectly possible to move machinery with an engine crane, but you will need at least a 2 ton variant. That way you will still have the lift height needed when the jib is shortened to get the lifting capacity. I would recommend a trailer, rather than a van, as the lift heights are much lower. Like this: I also moved the shaper lurking in the garage by similar means, it weighs about a ton. Note the block at the back corner of the trailer to stop it tipping! On my M300 one of the cross beams on the bed is tapped M16 for a lifting eye. Remember that a lathe is top heavy. Regards, Andrew
Jon	27/11/2011 13:42:20
1001 forum posts 49 photos	Thought i mentioned above that i made some wheels to drop lathe on to. Trouble was not being able to lift off scaffold tube a further 6" or there abouts on to the stand. Similar to Kwils cradle but two part. Pallet truck ok if battons were length ways under lathe. Need to get it on to and off! So need an engine hoist any way. With an engine hoist it will lift on to and off a sided trailer 14" off the floor plus more. Just use the M16 eye bolt and shackle in gap bed, easy until obstacles on the floor obstruct the small wheels. Think trailer hire was around £27 for the day and can be towed legally as regards weights for most saloon cars. Cost more in petrol collecting it. Hiab the easiest but wont get it down the slope. Plus still got the trouble of manouvering when at bottom, no mean feat unless on battons, cradle with wheels etc. Make sure its loaded using the M16 eye bolt, thats what Harrison did. Hiab costly last lathe 12 years ago was collected and driven from 16 mile away, added bonus scrap value of a car given and had to fork out £100. Still will have manouvering problem! Easy with a 140. Edited By Jon on 27/11/2011 13:50:46 Edited By Jon on 27/11/2011 13:51:03
Jon	27/11/2011 13:58:40
1001 forum posts 49 photos	Thats it Andrew very similar trailer i hired last year, smaller French car not mine. Mine was higher off the floor with sides. 1 tonne did it. Just checked it is M16 eye bolt so altered above. Got a Super Lux and cast iron stand on a trailer on and off the same way. Both parts over 1 tonne so manouvered individually. Can just get under garage door lathe and mill. The chap who collected old 140 similar weight had same trailer but couldnt remove the sides, we had to slide it up the ramp with three of us and a ratchet. Never sweated as much. He lashed the lathe up and pulled away to get it off down the ramp on his own. Crane in back of car dismantled.
Jon	27/11/2011 14:01:49
1001 forum posts 49 photos	Just measured the stand/base. Motor end is 15", tail stock end 9 1/2" not much room for 4 rollers before they come out = max 4" at best in one direction. Easier to slide it on long MS angle or bar in to position with long crow bar.
Billy Mills	27/11/2011 14:43:56
377 forum posts	Once you load a lathe into a van you have the subtle problem of getting it out unless you load onto a pallet and have a fork lift with long forks. An Engine hoist needs jib, chain and hook height, once you lift the load weight the van body lifts up and the jib might not clear the rear door frame. Ran into this issue moving a much lighter Elliot 10M shaper using a Transit. Solution was to remove the hook and chain and use a sling secured by a pin. A Trailer is a much better bet, you can use rollers or skates providing the trailer floor is strong and firm enough and you don't have that height restriction. A roller crow bar is invaluable for getting the lump into position if you can find one.Don't forget the strong webbing and ratchets to tie the load down. Some while ago I wrote an article about towing large loads which was based on notes from a traffic policeman. People who passed the test in the last decade or so apparently are not permitted to tow a load without passing a separate test which very few people seem know about. Perhaps worth checking for people with newer licences. Billy.
Matthew Chapman 1	27/11/2011 15:13:06
7 forum posts	Well thank you all very much for your help! I went up today to have a look and make a plan. They have a gantry crane so we easily put it on a pallet. The plan now is to palletise it on to a tail lift van and then use the palletier my end to manoever it into position. Im not looking forward to the tail lift operation and i still need to figure out how to get it off the pallet! Cheers Matt
alan frost	27/11/2011 15:24:14
137 forum posts 3 photos	Matthew, I have n't got time to read all these posts and I'm sure there's a lot of good advice there but I should read the thread "moving a mill" (or similar ) on Homeworkshop.org. I read all those posts and can guarantee it was all good advice including some from a guy who moved 10s and 100s of tonnes for a living. 650 Kg merits care, concentration,plenty of time, and ideally a helper who can be as weak as a child, just as long as they can run for help if you are not cautious enough and get pinned. BUT 650 Kg is not a lot for one man on his own with the right basic equipment and attitude. The right basic equipment would be a well designed folding 2 ton engine crane with the right mods , a 6 feet prybar (3 feet at a push), some rollers as small in diameter as the surface you're rolling over will permit (scrapbinium rod or tube ), properly rated slings (chains are stronger but if they do fail you won't get groans as a warning ), and some substantial wood blocks. A comealong (as the Ozzies and Americans so graphically describe them) and some strong rope. Also realise "the gravity shadow" as a friend of mine recently descibed it must be kept out of and extends beyond the area under the machine----try and imagine where the machine and you would be on its second roll. All of this equipment will be useful to you time and time again and is not expensive or space consuming. The problems come when you get used to well over a ton and then have to move a mere 5 cwt and get cocky as I did about 6 months ago very,very, luckily with no or very little damage to me or the machine. Rgds Alan
alan frost	27/11/2011 15:28:41
137 forum posts 3 photos	Just read your last post. If you are going to use a tail lift someone has given you not good advice and I would suggest you read the posts I suggested, Particularly Richard Shutes and P.J.'s. That is unless you like buttock clenching. Gantry crane excellent , pallet dubious , tail lift bad , van dubious. Gantry crane excellent, trailer excellent. OOOOer. I ve just read some of these posts. IMPERATIVE you read the posts I described altho Billy and Andrew above IMO are on the right lines. AS a for instance a 2 ton engine crane (a well designed one ) will lift most machines we will ever own at least 4 feet and probably 6 feet clear of the ground.How high do you want to go?? A van roof is a problem usually avoided by the mods to the engine crane I mentioned in my first post (shorten the crane hook chain) but as I say trailer excellent ,van dubious.. Edited By alan frost on 27/11/2011 15:32:14 Edited By alan frost on 27/11/2011 15:43:13
Billy Mills	27/11/2011 16:37:33
377 forum posts	Alan, my comments about van roof clearance were after I found that you could NOT shorten the chain on a brand new Clarke engine crane but you can remove it. Matt, perhaps the very best advice is to try to find a helper who really has direct experience of shifting machine tools. It might help if you told us the town where your lathe is moving to. Billy.
Gray62	27/11/2011 16:41:51
1058 forum posts 16 photos	My Warco GH1330 was delivered off a tail lift 7.5 tonne box wagon. The lathe was loaded onto an extended palletiser and then manouvered onto the tail lift, I had visions of the whole lot tipping off as the tail lift lowered. When a tail lift initially moves, they invariably drop the outer edge first, putting the load into an outward leaning position. At this point in proceedings I was considering my escape options! Be very aware that a lathe of this size is extremely top heavy and unstable. If using a tail lift, I would recommend using a winch of some description connected to the lifting eye and fixed to a secure mounting at the front of the vehicle loadspace, this will restrain the lathe as the tail lift is lowered and can be adjusted as it is lowered.. Once on the ground, the scaffold bar rollers would be ideal but be careful as even on a small incline a load of this size can quickly run away. ( I moved a 1.5 tonne Ajax Turret mill this way down a 6 degree slope into my workshop and it was scary!! Get as much help as you can, use ropes to allow helpers to stabalise the load from a safe distance With all that said, I moved both the mill and lathe into their final resting place on my own with toe jacks, trolley jacks and wheeled pry bars, a lot of sweat, no tears or missing appendages, and a couple of lagers when all done . Just take care and use bucket loads of common sense. and... best wishes for a succesful move. Graeme
Steve Withnell	27/11/2011 17:10:20
858 forum posts 215 photos	I'd get a quote from a professional mover who understands moving lathe's. The CoG is the thing to watch in my view (having managed to escape from the "gravity shadow" of a bloody great flanging machine. I was 35 years quicker on my toes then... Sorry for being a wimp. Steve
alan frost	27/11/2011 19:16:15
137 forum posts 3 photos	For completeness mods needed to engine crane, not necessary for 650Kg but useful are 1. Shorten jib support tube at an angle (makes it fold tighter) get top brace rewelded professionally unless you're good. Mark support tube up with deratings. 2. Make a set of shorter bracing legs mit casters (timber will do with angle iron reinforcement) , for when you're lifting < 2 tons in a confined space. Put a shelf in the back space where you can permanently store heavy objects to help counterbalance crane. This is self safetysising, wen you lift if the short legs/counterweight are not enough and the back of the crane starts slowly lifting, stop pumping and add longer legs or more counterweight. 3.Make a second ,shorter pump lever from old tube for use when space confined. 4. Shorten hook chain (to give higher lift under van roofs.) t5. Timber , rope and slings will groan and give you a warning that steel won't. 6.Use shims, spacers to tighten sloppiness between structural members of crane, particularly to center jib on ram. This as a guess will increase the safety factor of the crane by another 25 % and decrease buttock clenching by the same factor. 7.Clarkes make the biggest range . They are not cheap and IMO there is not a decent design among them. I think it might be possible to get a 3 tonner which is a good design and folds tightly but I've never seen one. You need six casters , a top brace and leg locks for when they are folded. If a leg falls on your head due to a sudden move you'll know all about it. 8 a 6 foot preferably pry bar is almost essential. When you've got a ton and a half suspended those easy rolling multidirectional csters won't be . A six foot gentleman's persuader will return the casters to compliance so small slow moves are possible. A ton and a half swinging is impressive but not good for maintaing the colour of the trousers. Most of the above can be done at leisure and will not be de rigeur for 650 Kg. EDit-Lots of helpers are not good unless you are an ex-sergant major and they are used to working as a team. Two reasonably strong men, used to working together, can move practically anything with the right equipment and much more safely. Watch riggers, theres not usually a bunch of them but they know what they are doing and work as a team. Steel toecaps and gloves are good but I must admit I rarely put mine on. best of luck and regards. Edited By alan frost on 27/11/2011 19:27:53 Edited By alan frost on 27/11/2011 19:29:41

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