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Cad for complete beginners (CAD for idiots)
| Ray Turvey | 20/03/2010 10:35:34 |
| 2 forum posts | Hi, I`m new on this site and looking for some advise regarding CAD. I`m looking to get into CAD drawing, for model and general mechanical engineering in my home workshop. Can anyone tell me which CAD software package would be best for a complete beginner? I realise this is a very difficult question to answer. After some reseach I have narrowed it down to TurboCAD deluxe and Alibre Design standard. All comments would be appreciated. Ray... |
| Circlip | 20/03/2010 11:29:58 |
| 1723 forum posts | If you check in the search mode, this subject has been covered quite a few times.
Regards Ian. |
| Peter G. Shaw | 20/03/2010 14:09:37 |
 1531 forum posts 44 photos | As Circlip has said, there have been a number of threads already on this topic, in fact there is a specific section for this topic. Anyway, what I would suggest is that you beg, borrow, or (better not go there it's illegal!) a copy of DAG Brown's book "CAD for Model Engineers", Workshop Practice Series No. 29. This will give you an idea of what can be achieved using CAD, but note that the program Brown uses is no longer available. Presumably you already know something about engineering drawing, but if not, then Tubal Cain's book "Workshop Drawing", Workshop Practice Series No. 13 will help. As regards software packages, the chances are you will find as many variations as there are model engineers, but for what it's worth, these are my thoughts: I have tried TurboCad - and couldn't get on with it. Other people have had the same problem. The only other packages I have knowledge of are DraftChoice for Windows - now defunct, and Design Cad 3D Max which I have found very easy to use, and for which not too old versions may be obtained relatively cheaply, eg version 18 for £24.99 where the latest version (20) is in excess of £60. Unfortunately it is difficult to find, partly I believe as it is now produced and sold by Imsi, who also produce the TurboCad program and who push TurboCad almost the exclusion of anything else. What I would suggest is that you download trial packages and try them out. You may find that some of the trial packages are actually much older versions of the latest program - TurboCad comes to mind here as I ended up with a fully working copy of version 4 when the latest version was either 7 or 8. Regards, Peter G. Shaw |
| Gone Away | 20/03/2010 15:34:31 |
| 829 forum posts 1 photos | There's also been a series on 3D CAD running in MEW since July 2009 if you have access to the Digital Editions. |
| KWIL | 20/03/2010 16:16:34 |
| 3681 forum posts 70 photos | "Paulthecad" has a good ab initio intro course to 2D CAD. The MEW series on 3D was excessively long for many people I am sure, it is fine to set the scene but it just went on and on and on............, far beyond what an average user or potential user would need to start with. |
| victor mcconville | 20/03/2010 16:42:27 |
| 20 forum posts | Hi Ray,
Try Draft It from cadlogic,i have used it for some time and it fullfills all my needs
It is free to download a simple version,this will get you started.
It has lots of tutorals to help you,if you like it you can upgrade for a nominal sun ( £20)
The free version may be all you need for some time to come
Hope this helps
Vic |
| Steve Garnett | 20/03/2010 17:32:11 |
| 837 forum posts 27 photos | I rather like (now that I've got used to it) Solid Edge 2D (free and complete). Certainly for general purpose drafting that you might want on a bit of paper in the workshop, it's absolutely fine, and has some useful bits in it too. I can produce plans with it that other people can work from without losing the rest of my hair and being yelled at, so as far as I'm concerned, that's a result! But if you really are a complete beginner, then any package at all is going to seem a bit confusing, because they all require a certain level of knowledge of drawing practice before you really begin to appreciate what they're about. So I'd say that tutorials and books would be a good starting point, because you won't really know what's 'best' for you initially at all; it's only when you try constructing a few plans for yourself that you'll really appreciate what's good and bad about any of these packages. |
| Peter G. Shaw | 20/03/2010 17:36:22 |
1531 forum posts 44 photos | Re the CAD program in MEW. Please note that this is NOT a true CAD program. Even Linton Wedlock, the series author, says so. It is a 3D MODELLING program with limited CAD capabilities. Without wishing to denigrate Linton's efforts, indeed he has shown just what can be done, the program that I use, DesignCad 3D Max, has 3D modelling capabilities, perhaps not as good as TrueSpace, but nevertheless it is there. And if you look at the adverts for my program, it does show all sorts of wierd and wonderful 3D creations. I imagine that other 3D CAD programs will have similar possibilities. The problem is that if you need to do 3D modelling, it will take you a long time to get to grips with it, indeed Linton himself says that he has been learning for 13 years. Therefore if, as Ray admits, you are at the bottom of the learning curve, perhaps you would be better advised to obtain a true CAD program which has 3D capabilities, working in 2D initially and then as familiartity increases, move onto 3D and 3D modelling. Regards, Peter G. Shaw |
| John Stevenson | 20/03/2010 18:32:12 |
 5068 forum posts 3 photos | One thing to watch if you choose a 3D program, as Peter has said some are Modelling programs often related to generating games and art type figures. Some of these cannot generate 2D drawings from the 3D information and it would be a shame to spend ages learning a program only to find that all you have are pretty pictures and no way of getting a workshop drawing out of it. |
| Versaboss | 20/03/2010 23:01:23 |
| 512 forum posts 77 photos | Ray, much of what I wanted to say was already mentioned. I also used a version of TurboCad (about 15 years ago) and was not happy. Maybe the newer versions have changed a lot, I don't know. However, for 2D CAD I would strongly suggest to have a look at AllyCad (www.allycad.com). This is the successor of ChoiceCad and DraftChoice, as mentioned by P.G. Shaw. A somewhat limited (in size of output file) version is free. For 3D I use Alibre. I think everybody who used once a parametric program is spoiled forever. But I have to say that sometimes this program drives me nuts. To mention a few of MY troubles, e.g.: - placing a drilled hole at an exact position is very complicated to say the least - moving a 3D model around so it is in a meaningful orientation is trial and error and luck. - sometimes certain operations don't work the way they are described in the tutorials, and there is no way to find out why That said, I use it (not very often, so that might be part of my problems) and don't know of anything better. Well I never tried that DesignCad.... Greetings, Hansrudolf |
| Gone Away | 21/03/2010 00:28:02 |
| 829 forum posts 1 photos | Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 20/03/2010 17:36:22: Re the CAD program in MEW. Please note that this is NOT a true CAD program. Even Linton Wedlock, the series author, says so. It is a 3D MODELLING program with limited CAD capabilities. My mistake Peter. I have to admit that I didn't actually read the series since I already have a preferred 3D CAD system that I've worked with professionally (and for "government jobs") for years. I just assumed it was a full CAD application. I'm a bit surprised at MEW giving the series so much room if it has such limited capabilities. Edited By Sid Herbage on 21/03/2010 00:31:44 |
| Michael Ellis 1 | 21/03/2010 01:35:20 |
| 13 forum posts | My experience is to avoid TurboCad at all costs - the best info I got out of the Yahoo forum was the sale of Alibre last summer. Most posts seem to be that a feature will not work at all or that a saved drawing/template changes through some bug/phase of the moon.
Try the free Alibre for a solid modeling program which will output 2D drawings, I think there is a trial version.
This advise applies only if you can sit down with a pencil and paper to draw a 2D in 3 or more views of a machine/furniture/automobile part.
ellis |
| David Clark 1 | 21/03/2010 09:08:31 |
 3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles | Hi There
TurboCad takes a little while to learn especially if you are used to AutoCAD or the AutoCAD Lite as I was but once you get to grips with it, it is an excellent package.
regards David |
| David Clark 1 | 21/03/2010 09:11:46 |
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles | Hi Versaboss
I am not familiar with AlleyCad.
Can you send me a DXF file so I can see if I can open it?
TurboCad has opened everything I have tried with the exception of Draft Choice for Windows.
As Alley Cad is based on this I would like to see if I can use them in the magazine.
regards David
|
| Ray Turvey | 21/03/2010 09:40:49 |
| 2 forum posts | Thanks for all your help gents. Ray... |
| John Stevenson | 21/03/2010 10:28:15 |
5068 forum posts 3 photos | If you are conversant with Autocad there are some programs that are free and based on that. Alleycad is close, http://www.allycad.com/freeware.asp the freeware copy will only open and work on drawings up to 300K, after that you pay for features but the paid for versions are either encrypted or dongled. A9CAD is another close copy, http://www.a9tech.com/ Freeware, no limitations, Progecad has a verion called Smart that is so close to Autocad it's hard to see which program you are using. http://www.progesoft.com/en/smart-2009 No limitations and they have their own user forum. Cad is like religion, one copy will not suit everyone. It's no good taking someone's recommendation that theirs is the best program. You can see this in the replies above where many different programs have been touted. CAD is a learning curve, how steep depends on the user but the first part is to download at least 4 or 5 demo's and spend at least a full night with each to see how the way it draws suits you . If you are not prepared to put this level of work into finding one you will never get the best out of a program. It sound s a lot of work but once you are proficient with a program it pays back in spades as regards accuracy and production. John S. |
| Circlip | 21/03/2010 12:20:45 |
| 1723 forum posts | Ya missed "DoubleCad" John, (From the same people as TurboCad and ALSO same rules as AutoCad).
WHATEVER you want to play with Ray, don't be conned into paying vast amounts for an Acad system you will NEVER utilise to the full. There are too many FREE ones out there.
Regards Ian |
| Peter G. Shaw | 21/03/2010 12:36:51 |
1531 forum posts 44 photos | From John Stevenson: Cad is like religion, one copy will not suit everyone. It's no good taking someone's recommendation that theirs is the best program. You can see this in the replies above where many different programs have been touted. CAD is a learning curve, how steep depends on the user but the first part is to download at least 4 or 5 demo's and spend at least a full night with each to see how the way it draws suits you . If you are not prepared to put this level of work into finding one you will never get the best out of a program. It sound s a lot of work but once you are proficient with a program it pays back in spades as regards accuracy and production. I would totally agree with the above comments. Although I use Design Cad, and have done for a good few years now, and am reasonably conversant with the major features, even now I will struggle if trying to do something new. What this also means is that I am not prepared to swap to another program. Having been through one learning curve, I don't need another. Having said that, the reason why I did not get on with TurboCad was because I was already spoiled by Draft Choice, which despite it being a shareware program, was in my opinion better written and better featured than the TurboCad program of the same age. Nevertheless, given the advances in all CAD programs, I imagine that anyone coming to TurboCad with no preconceived notions may well find it OK. At least it is easy to find. About Draft Choice for Windows. This was the program I first learned on and which I found very good and easy to use. It also had an excellent (no other word for it) tutorial. In particular, as a confirmed disliker of the mouse, this program enabled me to apply most, if not all, commands from the keyboard, (I find that keyboard action is generally so much faster than faffing around with the mouse.) and when it eventually failed to work following computer & operating system upgrade, I had to find a replacement. This is where Design Cad came in. I was fortunate enough to find a cheap enough copy to risk scrapping it (£13 inc p&p) and was initially very much intimidated by all the available functions, but I did find that there were a lot of similarities to Draft Choice, sufficient for me to make the transfer reasonably easily. I did not find Allycad, but if I had, I may well have been put off by the cost, although I do note that there is a file size limited, but otherwise fully functional free download. In respect of the size limitation, most of my files are less than 100kb, but I do have a small number approaching the 300kb limit, and one of over 1Mb - and none of my drawings are by any means complex. I suspect this 300kb limit may well become a serious limitation. Regards, Peter G. Shaw Edit. Also agree with Circlip. Don't pay lot's of money. Even my favourite can be obtained for £25. Have a look on ebay. Read any forums you can find about whichever program you are interested in. What you may find is that one particular earlier version is rated on the forums as being better made than later versions - and will be much, much cheaper. Also don't buy the latest version - it may well have unknown bugs in it. Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 21/03/2010 12:41:09 |
| John Stevenson | 21/03/2010 12:43:13 |
5068 forum posts 3 photos | Missed a load Ian, the list is too long. Never tried Double Cad, never managed to get past the download window. I personally don't like Turbocad, it's too clunky having to fill dialogue boxes out for everything and jumping thru hoops for simple jobs. I do agree though that unless you need a specific feature or you are doing it professionally then there is no need to pay for a program. John S. |
| Kevin Davie | 22/03/2010 02:37:52 |
| 2 forum posts | This is my first post.
I have been using Varicad for some time now. It is almost as easy to use as Leggo. Very fine position control of all functions. Drilling, tapping, milling and parts in 3D. Large tutorials etc. One button operation for 2D drawing from a model. Easy dimensioning and out put file to many formats. Give a trial download a try. www.varicad.com.
Kevin D |
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