Test dial brand query

Hello:

@admin: I was at a loss as to whether to post this question here or not, please excuse me and move where appropiate if it is in the wrong place.

On the lookout for a test dial I was offered the one in the photo below.

The seller does not know the brand, it belonged to her late father and does not have it at hand at the moment to give more information or send me another photo.

Has anyone seen this brand of instrument before or can tell me something about its quality or provenance?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

JHM

Julius, I wouldn't get too excited, stylus and screw marked/rusty no guarantee it hasn't been round the block several times. Not necessarily ruinously expensive to purchase new.

Robert Butler

Edited By Robert Butler on 01/11/2022 22:34:17

I am struggling to place the logo, it "feels" like Moore and Wright at a glance, but I can't find any evidence of that.

However, my actual point was going to be that at normal second hand prices, the risk should be low, and my experience of buying these kind of things sight unseen is that they usually work just fine if they arrive packaged correctly and intact; maybe 1 in 10 purchases has a minor defect.

To Roberts' point above, don't spend a significant amount of it, used examples go for £12-40 depending on condition and accessories, a new one from a far-eastern importer unbranded will be £30-40 without accessories, and a new Mitutoyo can be had for £70-100

Having owned loads from lots of different brands, it doesn't seem to matter one bit, the important thing is that the move freely still when you receive them 

Edited By Jelly on 01/11/2022 22:54:22

Not Moore & Wright,Mercer or Mitutoyo

Robert Butler

Lever style indicatoirs need to be very free moving over the full range to be satisfactory.

Any friction in the pivot due to corrosion or abuse will make them at best hard to use and at worse useless. There is a hair spring in the movement that is important to correct operation. generally either unobtanium or, in the context of ordinary guy pocket depth, unaffordable to repair.

Using one that "sort of works, usually" is a truely miserable experience, how do I know.

New import from a reliable supplier isn't silly expensive for something that needs to work well. £40 (ish) from ArcEurotrade.

Or you can usually find a Verdict in good order, with accessories in its case for £30 (ish).

Facebook Marketplace can surprise you too with things close enough to go and look at, asking for things to be sent is just too unsafe.

Clive

Julius, where are you in the world?
Outside the UK by any chance?
I ask due to the spelling of Jeweled with one L rather than Jewelled; both are valid in the UK, but the latter is more usual for stuff produced in the UK, as opposed to produced for the UK market in the far east.
The logo on this one doesn't seem that well defined, so I wonder about the quality of the movement.
That said, it all depends on price and local availability.

There may be a small lever on the side, often black plastic, to reverse the direction of lever indication, push/pull; from my own experience with old ones, make sure it hasn't gone brittle with age or cutting fluid contamination.
They are hard to find replacements, and a bit of a pain to make.

Bill

Agreed. Makes me think (perhaps incorrectly) that it has been adorned such as to give some impression, as to the origin, to those that might be susceptible to thinking it was from one of the better/more reliable manufacturers?

It is only a comparative instrument, so the 0.01mm is an arbitrary indication of its performance. If it works freely - good. If not - junk it.

I would not risk buying it based on looking at a photo, it's odds on that it will be faulty and the indicator needle will not return to zero, particularly if it's been unused for decades.

I must have a number of these obtained in mixed lots from auction and several don't return to zero every time, particularly if you release the pointer slowly. I tried using watchmakers oil on a couple of them but still they tend to stick just short of zero

I bought two similar indicators from "express with Ali" for £16 delivered , they are still available now at £9 each.

John

Could be Morrisons.

Regards Ian.

Can you not rotate the bezel to set the zero to the needle?

The OP pic looks like standard Chinese fare. Not worth a great deal used as they are cheaper than chips to buy new off Aliexpress or eBay etc. That said, I have smaller-dialled DTI purchased from Aliexpress some years ago that cost $20 with a magnetic stand, and it is still working today. Good enough for home workshop use. It says "Mitutoyo" on the dial, but in a pig's ear it is.

That logo looks very much like the Millers Oil logo.

The logo on the gauge looks as though it has been cut out of paper and stuck on. The circle is not centred and the edges are wavy.

Easier to say who it isn't! Not Baty, Brown and Sharpe, Dasqua, Interrapid, Mitutoyo, Moore & Wright, Sylva, or Tesa.

I suspect it's a Far Eastern DTI, likely but not necessarily Chinese, and made with whatever logo the retailer wants on the dial. This one looks like an M which hints at Mitutoyo or Moore & Wright, but isn't them. Could be a tool store, internet box shifter or supermarket. Some are better made than others, price new between £15 and £30-ish.

Not much point in my opinion worrying about brand or provenance because it's second-hand. Buying pre-loved gear, I suggest nothing matters apart from condition. Expensive tools aren't magically protected from wear and tear, abuse, and accidental damage.

The one pictured is very like my inexpensive lever DTI. It works OK, except every so often the needle jumps rather than moves slowly: the movement probably has a burr or there's some dirt inside. After 10 years use it would have to be considerably worse before I bothered to replace it, but it's the sort of minor fault that can be considerably annoying.

Would I buy it? Not sight unseen, but if I was able to test it for smooth operation and a consistent return, I might offer up to a tenner for it. Bear in mind new ones aren't expensive and that a complete dud can be returned.

As always much depends on how the instrument will be used. I need a basic comparator and don't mind having a few goes if the needle is sticky. Very different from a busy professional workshop requiring smooth reliability, calibration, different probes and clever functionality like data output and tolerance setting. Or someone who enjoys owning 'good tools' even if they don't work properly. It's a hobby...

Dave

Is it local to you? If so how about saying you'll take it on approval, probably worth £5 to 10 if it works, return if not.

Hello:

Thank you all for the prompt reply, much appreciated. 8^)

Sorry for my lateness, for some reason I am not getting notifications so I'll reply to all in one:

@Robert Butler: thanks for the heads up, will take into account.

@Jelly: asking price is ~US$30ish. I have to see what it comes with, check how it works and think about it.

@Clive: local fleabay type place here is expensive, for both new and used. I'm located far away from the usual sources which makes shipping quite expensive and import duties on the whole lot sums up.

@Bill: I'm at the far end of the southern hemisphere, I also noted the untidy logo but not the spelling. Good catch. I may get more photos but will certainly not purchase it without having a look at it first.

@Hopper: I have not seen it yet but it is certainly not a known brand and there are many. I been to a US site that says that Kaëfer " ... is willing to put just about anyone's name" on their economical dials so it could be but I doubt it, too sloppy looking.

@notdoneityet: yes, I agree. For what I will be doing, I need consistency not accuracy.

@Moderator: your comments make a lot of sense, will keep them in mind. 

Once again, many thanks to *all* for your reply.

I now have a bit more to chew on.

ie: if it was not seen by anyone in this forum, it is inconnu and if used, probably not worth the asking price.

Best regards,

JHM

Edited By Julius Henry Marx on 02/11/2022 21:43:03

Edited By Julius Henry Marx on 02/11/2022 21:55:04

Hello:

@Hopper:

> ... looks like standard Chinese fare.

@Daggers:

> ... looks as though it has been cut out of paper and stuck on.

Spot on.

Further investigation and a chat with one of the techs at a local repair/calibration shop revealed that it is most probably "... standard Chinese fare" and that the logo is indeed " ... cut out of paper and stuck on."

The paper logo bit (sloppy) is something another local repair/calibration shop does with these type (blank face) test dials when they do repair or calibration work on them.

I doubt it is from one of the better (?) quality manufacturers that make vanity dials like eg: Horex or Kaëfer as those usually have some brand stamped on them for the outfit selling them.

The result of my informative chat was an offer for a similar one left for repair/calibration with them by a local faucet/plumbing OEM a couple of years ago and never retrieved.
 

Price was ~US$12.00 and as it was not much to lose so after having a look at it I brought it home.

Now I have an extra US$18.00 for 6x6 HSS blanks or stock.  8^D

@Dave:

> ... nothing matters apart from condition.

> ... smooth operation and a consistent return ...

> ... need a basic comparator and don't mind having a few goes ...

Looks in good shape, bezel moves fine, mechanism runs smoothly and returns to nought every time.

Don't need more than that, at least till I get a good idea as to what I can do with my Unimat 3 milling table.

Once again, thanks to all for your reply.

Best,

JHM

Edited By Julius Henry Marx on 05/11/2022 11:48:56