MIG gas/gasless welders - recommendations?

I'm looking for a combo gas/gasless MIG welder that I can run off a 13A plug for light welding jobs. Any recommendations?

Edited By Tony Jeffree on 06/09/2021 15:45:48

Yes:

don't, under any circumstances, buy a gasless welder.

...because...?

I dont rate gasless mig welders either. Much harder to get good consistent welds. If you are not doing much welding then the small disposable gas bottles are readily available so why not go with gas? I've have a clarke 150a mig welder for over 10 years and it has never given me any issues (although I might have been lucky!). I've gone up to about 6mm (steel) with it. It's meant to be on a 16a plug but I've not had any problems running it on a 13a plug. If you want to spend a bit more then all the welders from Rtech get very good write ups. They are still chinese made but Rtech are a uk company and they are known for their excellent customer service (when my clarke dies this is what I will replacing it with.)

They have no advantages over any other form of welding and lots of disadvantages.

Think of them as a wire feed stick welder, which costs more to buy and run, but is harder to use while making shittier welds.

You should also mention what you're intending to weld.

A very good reason for using a gasless welder is if you are having to weld outside, wind/ draughts play havoc with a gas Mig.

Sure a gasless Mig gives a poorer weld quality than a gas Mig. BUT if you have to work outside, then give me a gasless Mig anytime. A gas Mig doesn't cut the mustard in those circumstances.

Andrew.

Here's a typical job for me, in the same spot I've been doing them for over 30 years:

As an amateur metal-gluer-together I wouldn't use anything else for under 100 quid

My stick welder has been abandoned, even the inverter one produced huge amounts of smoke and loads of slag compared to the gasless mig

All my kit is Lidl stuff a pro wouldn't touch

Reels are a tenner a pop so hoover up the Lidl 2 for 6 quid ones when they are in stock

Instant arc - away you go

Takes a few days to figure it out, I actually thought mine was broken or wired in reverse for the first day because things were going so badly compared with the stick

well worth the effort once you get it sussed

And get a decent mask, a 70 quid parweld true colour for example

GL

Tolerant neighbours there Nick.

You can get rent free bottles probably near you similar to here, note that disposables will cost you £150 or a full10lb bottle for £64 and refills £18 instead of another £150. I use straight co2 weld pool, you get more penetration. This place gave me a refill after 10 years gap. I've used 3 bottles over 30 years.

Cheap welders do not have a very low, low setting so car work is difficult. Welding outside can be fixed by a sheet of cardboard. The top power claims are like most compressors or the Parkside Plasma cutter, ambitious to say the least.

Spend some time reading on here they have decent tutorials.

I agree with Dave above re the welding forum, also a good book " Farm welding" lot of good pictures. No signs of the farmers friend, bale twine at all. John

A good point. I do want to be able to weld outside if need be, and that is one reason why the versatility of both gas and gassless would be useful. The other is that, because we live on an island, actually getting supplies of gas (even the disposable bottles) is difficult, as the postal regulations and costs are prohibitive. So re-stocking would only be possible on the rare occasions that we venture onto the mainland.

That's an excellent reason to consider a gasless welder.

I still wouldn't buy one.

Thanks - that helps. I'm not expecting to go above 6mm steel, but I guess that is pretty much the limit anyway if I am using a 13A plug.

Edited By Tony Jeffree on 06/09/2021 19:08:45

Any views on inverter vs non-inverter units?

Thanks - I will take a look.

Any views on inverter vs non-inverter units?

Limited experience of one of each type - I bought a Sip Migmate 130 transformer type unit many years ago & my employer bought a 140A Ebay inverter unit for doing up a VW T2 last summer.

The Sip has been nothing but trouble, very rarely working well. If I had had the benefit of Google before I bought it (which was in pre-Google times) I would not have bought it ! Lots of similar tales of woe on the Mig Welding Forum showed it wasn't just my inexperience with Mig that was the problem, most areas of the the machine are lacking. Time will tell if my decision to gut the thing & replace pretty much all of the intenal gubbins except the case, transformer & rectifier was worthwhile or just chucking more good money after bad.

The 140A inverter unit I picked up on for my employer was chosen mainly for it's ability to go down to 20A for vehicle bodywork. It is a gas / gasless unit & worked straight out of the box - I had to fit the second (small) reel of wire today, with the first having gone though without any feeding or other issues. I have only used it a couple of times & produced better welds than any I managed with the Sip. As with all inverter units, it is light & compact - the Sip is very heavy and bulky.. This particular unit will only take small reels of wire & has a fixed torch - others would take 5Kg reels & used Eurotorch socketed torches, but these are physically a lot bigger and more costly. As the VW T2 project is likely to be a one-off the more compact, less expensive route was taken.

I will check the make tomorrow & post up a link if I can find one - it came next day from a UK seller (though made in China) & cost around £140 IIRC. This unit was bought after I had made the decision to rebuild the Sip and had already ordered the components. Had I seen the inexpensive inverter unit perform before having ordered the bits, I would not have bothered & would have binned the Sip and bought an inverter unit instead.

Nigel B.

Gasless mig is a very specific window of unique sweet-spot ... basically thin panel welding outdoors... occasional outdoors mig can be solved by turning up the gas on the occasion (wasteful, but ...).

I'd suggest that unless you plan to do lots of outdoor thin metal welding you consider either:

If lots of outdoors welding, but little thin: MMA

Lots of thin welding but little outdoors: gas mig.

Gasless mig is a "worst of all worlds" which makes sense in only a few very specific situations.

YMMV

You want to weld ? Weld what ? Under 2mm mig may be BUT with Co2 from the pub ! I worked out side for 30 years and seldom had trouble with gas loss. A cheap mig will be difficult to use EVEN if you can weld ! IF your a novice it may prove almost immpossible to do a good sound weld. A MIG in untrained hands is just asking for trouble- trust me I know and still have the frightening proof ! A poor MMA weld will look bad if it is, this is NOT the case with MIG. Noel

Sorry Tony, it's very difficult to get proper penetration on 6mm with 150A. Migs have a nasty habit with low power of looking like they have produced a good joint, but when you sample cut it there's not enough penetration.

I started with a new Cebora 130A mini mig (also marketed by Snapon and BOC.) Alledged to weld 4mm it was in fact unable to weld 3mm properly though brilliant for car body work. I now use an old school 170A professional machine bought from a company who welded barges though if something needed the full strength of a 6mm weld I think it might be underpowered given my skills.

I'm with Dave ! When the susspension unit of a brand new trailer failed causing a serious road accident the cause was a MIG welded unit with NO penetration. The perfect LOOKING weld just sat on top of the mill scale. The unit was commercially made though I suspect welded by unskilled labour. Only when I bought a 375A machine would I use mig for anything above 3mm, the machine was portable - I built a 20Kva 3Ph diesel generator to power it. Small, cheap MIG welders in untrained hands are VERY DANGEROUS !!!! Noel.