Steam Power

Hi,

Strictly speaking I am not a model engineer as I only fly radio controled model aircraft and they don't take a lot of making (at least not the one's I fly). Actually, I don't have a degree in engineering either (does a HNC count for anything anymore?).

so I suppose I should confess to being someone that likes to tinker with things and someone that has a fascination with steam engines both static and none static. I have attended several of the local events over the last few years and love the whole atmosphere. But this is what I know about steam engines, something hot is used to change something wet, into something hot and wet, which in turn forces a piston down a cylinder and using (con rods?) turns wheels or fly wheels.

Reading through other posts and looking at some of the shops I realise that I know bugger all about steam power, is there a reccomended book for learning about such things?

Thanks,

Ian

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Youtube will give the easiest ways to understand the principles in a diagramatic form. (lots of videos there)

Here is one of a very simple 'Double acting' engine.

Hello Ian, a degree (or any other qualification) in engineering is not necessary at all to build or operate working steam engines. It is not even a requirement to have a lathe or milling machine etc, though it helps.

The above post with the animation of a steam engine is very good and really tells you everything.

There are a number of books aimed at the beginner in the extensive Model Engineer collection of books.

Welcome to the world of steam and all the best with where you decide to go with it.

Brian

"When I were a lad" I remember a little book from the library by F J Camm that included constructional details for a flash steam power plant for model planes. Now that might be interesting, a steam powered RC aircraft!

Hi Ian,

My Dad was a very accomplished aeromodeller, he spent all his life well into his eighties building and flying model aeroplanes.

He also like you showed an interest in steam (not for aeroplanes!!!!) and made some really nice hand built, no lathe, examples. All of these were simple oscillators like the twin cylinder one in the photo.

Yes, this is entirely hand built with bench tools, Dad didn't even have pillar drill, never mind a lathe.

I suspect this engine was built from a old plan in one of his model magazines.

My advice to you would be start with a simple single cylinder oscillator. I think that would be good fun. You can run them on compressed air, no need initially for a steam boiler.

best regards geoff

In my eyes, certainly. I have a number of university degrees but in some ways that was an easy path. An HNC was usually aquired by studying whilst at the same time doing a full time job. It showed dedication.

Russell

A recent thread on here recommended

Model stationary and Marine steam engines by K.N.Harris

and Model boilers and boiler making by K.N.Harris.

both available from Tee PUblishing. They are fairly simple but not absolute beginner level. Still worth a look. If you google around you might find more info on them. Tee Publishing have a number of good books on steam that are well worth a look.

A steam engine popular with beginners is the Elmer's Wobbler engine. Details and drawings are here http://www.john-tom.com/html/ElmersEngines.html

They are a lot simpler than the ones in the books above.

Edited By Hopper on 01/07/2017 10:53:47

No need to apologise, Sir Frank Whittle 'invented' his jet engine long before he obtained his degree, fortunately, he was able to progress both ,in parallel, and the rest is history.

I have come across a Chartered Engineer who quite honestly didn't know which end of a screwdriver to use, and admitted it. Give me someone who has dirty hands any day.

Roy

And be prepared to work with odd dimensions. Strange how the new generation of "Muddle Ingineers" seem incapable of working with sizes not measured to three decimal places or toleranced to the Nth degree (Thanks Acad etc.) Makes one wonder how Doctors, Vicars, Ploughmen and Roadsweepers etc. managed to make examples of models 100 years ago.

And a word of warning, DON'T try to make a Merlin yet.

Regards Ian.

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And if my childhood memory serves me correctly was he also the brother of Sydney Camm the chap that designed the Hawker Hurricane.?

Nick

Edit :- Yes he was just googled him and read Wikipedia. It was as an RF engineer he was best know for. As for Sydney he it seems did much, much more than just the Hurricane. - Clever boys.! Must have been a very proud lady must Mrs Camm. 

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Edited By Nick_G on 01/07/2017 15:04:08

Wow thank you all of you,

Nick G, love the sliding valve arrangement I didn't know how the various strokes were acheived in steam now it seems so logical, but I won't be trying to build anything too complex for quite a while that's for sure.

Brian Hutching, thanks for the encouragement, I will mull it over before jumping in.

John Haine, I can't imagine me having the knowledge or determination to build and fly a steam driven aeromodel, but it conjurs up a wonderful image.

Geoff Walker 1, your father certainly had determination, I suspect that he came across several head scratching moments and yet persevered and produced a fine looking model.

Russell Eberhardt, yes I struggled in year two, three nights a week as the tutors couldn't stay long enough into the evenings to make it just two nights a week. Sadly I think I have forgotten lots of theoretical stuff now as well. Will need to google a lot I think!

Hopper, Thank you, I have downloaded the wobbler drawing and will buy at least one of the recommended books.

J Hancock, Thank you, I didn't know that, Sir Frank Whittle what clever and (I belive) a down to earth chap and engineer.

Roy Entwhistle, I know what you mean, I have come across one or two when I worked at R-R.

Circlip, I still drift back into thou's and even ten's now and then, although my lathe is in metric, I tend to use a simple imperial clock mounted to it when needed. Won't be making anything like a Merlin or any of the other raptor's just a simple steam engine that hisses and puffs will put a huge smile on my mug .

Nick_G, ahh good old Hawker Siddeley and AV Roe becoming AVRO, producing the mighty (and very impressive) Vulcan.

Clearly a long and slow but enjoyable journey ahead for me, and to think I have lived in Crewe for so many years and no bugger all about steam, although to be fair I have only ever been on a few real steam loccos as they made way for diesel during my childhood years.

Once again, thank you all for being so helpfull.

Ian

Have to agree youtube is a useful source if your interested in model steam take a look at some of this guy's videos he's his also quite funny at time Keith Appleton

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There are plenty of sources giving a qualitative understanding of steam engines. But for a quantative understanding you'll need to study the properties of steam, and that requires some basic thermodynamics. A good mix of theory and experimental results can be found in:

The Steam-Engine and other Heat-Engines by J Alfred Ewing CUP ISBN 978-1-107-61563-2

This covers the basic thermodynamics for reciprocating steam engines as well as steam turbines. It also covers compounding, valve gears and governing.

Andrew

There was an article in Model Engineer a few years back on building a steam powered model aircraft engine, I don't know if it had enough power to carry much in the way of radio control gear.

Sydney Camm designed aircraft from the Hawker Cygnet of 1925, through the Hurricane, Typhoon /Tempest, and on to the P-1127 Kestral / Harrier.

Ian S C

Thank you chaps, fascinating stuff.

ATB, Ian