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Engineering Origin of a Common Phrase?

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SillyOldDuffer28/05/2016 13:13:22
10668 forum posts
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There are lots of examples in ordinary English of technical jargon entering the language. As a "loose cannon" I might "go nuclear", "let off steam", "tune in", be "between the devil and the deep blue sea", or commit myself "lock, stock and barrel".

Yesterday I was aligning my milling machine ready to drill an accurately placed hole. My wobbler was spinning at 2400rpm when I bumped it causing the ball mounted pin to whiz across my garage and disappear into a pile of junk.

After a fruitless search I lost my temper and walked off the job.

Calming down later I realised that I had "thrown a wobbler" in two senses of the phrase!

Does anyone "have the bandwidth" to tell me if the phrase "throwing a wobbler" has an engineering origin or not? Are there any other examples, perhaps "flying off the handle"?

Thanks,

Dave

JasonB28/05/2016 13:19:02
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"Balls Out" has its origins in the fact that governor balls swing out as the speed of an engine increases

mechman4828/05/2016 13:27:31
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2947 forum posts
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Something to do with gyroscopes not being balanced properly & wobbling out of true... 'throwing a wobbler'...? thinking

I know 'going off half cocked' stems from in the heat of battle; if the old muskets weren't fully cocked after loading ( always loaded at 'half cock' then fully cocked for firing   the resultant discharge didn't have its full charge ignited, the flint barely capable of creating enough sparks in the frizzen pan to ignite the main charge...

George.

Muzzer28/05/2016 13:37:30
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Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 28/05/2016 13:13:22:

Yesterday I was aligning my milling machine ready to drill an accurately placed hole. My wobbler was spinning at 2400rpm when I bumped it causing the ball mounted pin to whiz across my garage and disappear into a pile of junk.

Use an edge finder instead of a wobbler. They don't flail about as the end is captive and has limited movement. This is your opportunity to change!

You probably know how to use an edge finder already but here's another video on how they work.

Available from most sources. Arc Euro even give an explanation how to use them.

Bernard Wright28/05/2016 13:44:58
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90 forum posts
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Surely it's a 'wiggler' not a wobbler.... just saying

Bernard.

Peter Hall28/05/2016 14:06:32
115 forum posts
1 photos

Not a wobbler, but if you slip whilst dismantling motorcycle switchgear and let the small spring fly loose, that's called a pingf*ckit, 'cos that's the sound you'll hear as it disappears into the darkest recesses of the workshop.

Pete

John Fielding28/05/2016 14:26:38
235 forum posts
15 photos

How about the saying "a black art".

I know where it came from but how many others know its origin?

Incidentally a lot of the common sayings today are from Shakespeare's plays.

SillyOldDuffer28/05/2016 14:45:43
10668 forum posts
2415 photos
Posted by Bernard Wright on 28/05/2016 13:44:58:

Surely it's a 'wiggler' not a wobbler.... just saying

Bernard.

Hi Bernard,

You just gave me a mild panic attack! It got worse when I tried to prove I knew what I was talking about. Finding nothing but "wigglers" in my various reference books, I was convinced I'd blown a gasket and had somehow imagined the stupid thing was called a wobbler.

Thankfully Chronos came to the rescue. Between them and a stiff sherry I'm feeling better now!

More good news - the missing wobbler pin has been found. Nowhere near where I thought it landed.

Cheers,

Dave

SillyOldDuffer28/05/2016 15:16:01
10668 forum posts
2415 photos
Posted by Muzzer on 28/05/2016 13:37:30:
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 28/05/2016 13:13:22:

Yesterday I was aligning my milling machine ready to drill an accurately placed hole. My wobbler was spinning at 2400rpm when I bumped it causing the ball mounted pin to whiz across my garage and disappear into a pile of junk.

Use an edge finder instead of a wobbler. They don't flail about as the end is captive and has limited movement. This is your opportunity to change!

You probably know how to use an edge finder already but here's another video on how they work.

Available from most sources. Arc Euro even give an explanation how to use them.

Thanks Muzzer - good advice as always.

I didn't say so in the post, but the point I was aligning was on a 100mm diameter circular plate held by a rotary table. I tried using an edge finder to locate "North" and "West" on the plate but found it difficult to judge when the edge finder was truly at the farthest point on the circle. I admit I gave up too easily, and was left wondering if I'd missed a trick. Is an edge-finder a good tool for this?

I'm a self taught machinist and quite often end up kicking myself when I find out how the experienced chaps do things.

Thanks,

Dave

bricky28/05/2016 17:14:38
627 forum posts
72 photos

The term cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey,originates from when warships stored canonballs iniron monkeys on deck.The iron rusted and the two were stuck together.Making the monkeys from brass solved the rusting problem but in freezing conditions the brass contracted and popped the balls off.

Frank

John C28/05/2016 17:32:38
273 forum posts
95 photos

Not model engineering, although maybe heavy engineering, but one of my favourites is 'throw a track'. This is from the armoured cavalryman's vocabulary and refers to a bad thing that happens to a tracked vehicle such as a tank. But I like the way it can be applied to any event that does not go as planned, or to the mental state of the poor unfortunate to whom the bad event has just happened!

John

duncan webster28/05/2016 20:29:37
5307 forum posts
83 photos

Someone will shoot me down over this, but I'm not sure an edge finder or wobbler works on a convex surface. As soon as it moves ever so slightly off centre, it will lose contact and so not 'flick'. An electronic one would work, I just use a bright light behind and move the tool until there is no gap. It's surprising how repeatable this is. If using an endmill you need to rotate the tool slightly to get contact at full diameter, it's obvious when you're actually doing it, not easy to describe

JasonB28/05/2016 20:44:28
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25215 forum posts
3105 photos
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My electronic edge finder works on concave and convex surfaces, just lights up when it touches the surfacesmiley

Use it all the time to find ctr of circles - touch approx north and zero the dial, move y-axis only and touch approx south and half the distance. As this is a cord of the circle the half way point will be on ctr line. Repeat for east/West and you have the middle of your circle without worrying if you touched on teh exact extream of the edges.

SillyOldDuffer28/05/2016 21:37:55
10668 forum posts
2415 photos
Posted by JasonB on 28/05/2016 20:44:28:

My electronic edge finder works on concave and convex surfaces, just lights up when it touches the surfacesmiley

Use it all the time to find ctr of circles - touch approx north and zero the dial, move y-axis only and touch approx south and half the distance. As this is a cord of the circle the half way point will be on ctr line. Repeat for east/West and you have the middle of your circle without worrying if you touched on teh exact extream of the edges.

Jason strikes again! I didn't realise that it's not necessary to find true North and true west. Of course half the chord must lie on the centre line. I can't wait to try it!

How about "Nose to the Grindstone", "hammered" and "screwed up"?

Thanks again guys,

Dave

Eugene28/05/2016 21:38:48
131 forum posts
12 photos

"Fast and loose" must be the most obvious (or not if you don't know the derivation.) Or "a screw loose".

"Straight as a gun barrel" was common usage when I was a yoof, but that was in industrial Birmingham so maybe it wasn't current elsewhere. Another phrase from those days "He doesn't know if his a**e is drilled bored or countersunk" I still hear from time to time ... Boris Johnson take note!

"Only firing on three cylinders" is common enough as is "Nose to the grindstone". I've seen the balls off a brass monkey explanation before and don't believe it.

Eug

Robbo28/05/2016 23:13:19
1504 forum posts
142 photos

"Strike while the iron is hot" - doesn't refer to a golf club!

Enough!28/05/2016 23:48:26
1719 forum posts
1 photos
Posted by duncan webster on 28/05/2016 20:29:37:

An electronic one would work,

The electronic (well, electrical) type with a deflectable ball on the end works quite nicely in this situation and can be used whether the part is mounted horizontally or vertically but is very useful when the circular section is vertical (e.g. a horizontal round bar). Just feed backwards and forwards in the appropriate axis (in this case the z-axis .... use it like a drilling machine) while moving the part towards the centre finder until it just beeps.

Nick_G28/05/2016 23:59:56
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1808 forum posts
744 photos
Posted by JasonB on 28/05/2016 13:19:02:

"Balls Out" has its origins in the fact that governor balls swing out as the speed of an engine increases

.

So nothing to do with secret inauguration ceremony into the Masons after all then. winkwink

Nick

JasonB29/05/2016 07:22:57
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25215 forum posts
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So that is what you they hide behind those little aprons then Nickblush When you have put it away what about an update on the Hogletquestion

Bandersnatch my electronic finder has a 0.200" dia parallel end so don't even need to move it up and down when used against a horizontal round bar like you do with the ball ended ones

Jon Gibbs29/05/2016 08:39:03
750 forum posts

I always thought that "fast and loose" and "knocking off time" came from the same source and it certainly sounds a pretty good origin but "fast and loose" was used by Shakespeare in King John a few years before line-shaft machinery...

KING PHILIP: Heaven knows, they were besmear'd and over-stain'd with slaughter's pencil, where revenge did paint the fearful difference of incensed kings: And shall these hands, so lately purged of blood, so newly join'd in love, so strong in both, unyoke this seizure and this kind regreet? Play fast and loose with faith? So jest with heaven…

So, maybe it was reinvented.

Jon

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