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This months MEW are 3 CNC features two too many

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John Stevenson	30/05/2011 19:09:44
5068 forum posts 3 photos	Posted by Brian on 30/05/2011 16:46:58: Thank You David, can we all assume that CNC is now excluded from MEW in the future? regards Brian Only as long as they leave steam trains out of ME................ John S.
David Clark 1	30/05/2011 19:12:06
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi There No, not excluded. There is a demand for it. regards david
David Clark 1	30/05/2011 19:21:47
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi There I was taking the mickey. Basically I was saying correspondence closed. I have to listen to all readers and many want CNC articles. The email was quite nasty. There was no need for that. I do listen to readers who email me. regards David
David Clark 1	30/05/2011 20:03:48
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi There Now that is a good idea, tractors on the cover. Watch this space. Seriously though. Most Tractor magazines have a circulation of over 50,000. There is clearly a need for tractor related articles in MEW. Any offers to write them? regards david
David Clark 1	30/05/2011 20:07:14
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Articles on new technology are welcome. After all, in 20 years people will be complaining that all the articles will be about 3D printing and other technology not yet invented. I bet in 2031, all the readers will be asking to go back to the good old days of CNC articles. regards david
David Clark 1	30/05/2011 20:19:48
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi There I can only publish what I receive. I do try to cater for all skills (or lack of) and I like to put the odd article in that looks a bit rough but works. We can't all be expert machinists. We have to show some of the boilermaking and bodge it type of work as well. I got lots of complaints about the Side Lever enigne that was in Model Engineer but I also got some compliments and a toolmaker said he was part way through it. I don't think badly presented articles (what they finished object looks like) discourage readers, I think they encourage them to have a go. regards david
Andrew Johnston	30/05/2011 20:44:05
7061 forum posts 719 photos	Posted by David Clark 1 on 30/05/2011 20:19:48: I got lots of complaints about the Side Lever enigne that was in Model Engineer but I also got some compliments and a toolmaker said he was part way through it. Good grief; on what gounds? Some people seem to whinge just for the sake of it. I thought it was an interesting series, nicely presented and photographed, and shows what can be done at the smaller end of the equipment range. I also assume that English is not the author's native language, which makes it all the more impressive. I'll never build one of the engines, but nevertheless I always read the articles as I find them instructive. Regards, Andrew
David Clark 1	30/05/2011 21:06:08
3357 forum posts 112 photos 10 articles	Hi Andrew On the grounds it does not look like a prototype engine, round head screws, overall finish was poor and brass for the conecting rod pin. regards David
John Stevenson	30/05/2011 21:42:54
5068 forum posts 3 photos	Forums, email and the internet have a lot to answer for. Years ago the Herberts who wanted to would go into the shed and do their best, nowadays the Ruperts of this world stay welded to an armchair sharpening pencils and mice like demented souls. John S.
Nicholas Farr	30/05/2011 22:03:42
3988 forum posts 1799 photos	Posted by David Clark 1 on 30/05/2011 21:06:08: Hi Andrew On the grounds it does not look like a prototype engine, round head screws, overall finish was poor and brass for the conecting rod pin. regards David Hi, well I think it looks quite an elegant engine in its own way, even without being painted. I thought this was a simple steam series, and the author did say it was not be considered a true scale model. I'm sure that most people who don't like the shape of the screws can put in alternatives, and choose thier own materials for pins ect. Regards Nick.
Tony Jeffree	30/05/2011 22:37:19
569 forum posts 20 photos	Posted by Tomfilery on 30/05/2011 17:30:24: For the moment it looks as if the luddites have won the day (judging by the demand for the Ed to say there will be no further cnc articles), but I would like articles on current and new technology to continue to be featured in MEW - if only to shake up the old farts (though at 55, I guess I count as one of them already). Hi Tom - At 55, you can definitely count yourself as one of the young farts Good to see a vote for a broad cross-section of technology, old and new; without a reasonable amount of attention to the new technology, I fear we will all become old farts before our time. For my part, I will continue to contribute articles to MEW based on the stuff that I do in the workshop (when I have the tme and patience to do so). That will continue to be a mixture of old and new; my most recent article (Worden grinder construction) was definitely old technology, but even that caused more than a modicum of controversy amongst those that seem to have had a total sense of humour bypass. Ho hum. The article I am currently working on will probably cause the luddites a good deal of indigestion, as it relates to simpler alternatives to running full CNC on a lathe. Does that bother me? Frankly, no. To me, there are two kinds of engineers (model or otherwise) in this world; the ones that already know it all, and for whom there is nothing new that can be remotely interesting, and the ones that (regardless of their level of skill) recognize that there is always something new and interesting to find out about, that will enrich their knowledge and understanding of the craft, whether or not they choose to make use of it themselves. As far as I can tell, it is mostly the former kind of engineers that seem to be having a problem with the amount of, or even the presence of, CNC articles in the mag; frankly, I am surprised that they bothered to subscribe in the first place, and losing them from the subscription list would be a net gain both to them and to the remaining readership. Regards, Tony
John Stevenson	30/05/2011 23:27:58
5068 forum posts 3 photos	Long post so go get a coffee. I feel that this has all been taken out of context. Looking at a generic issue of MEW there are 10 project subjects per issue and this isn't counting editors page, scribe a line etc. So from issues 164 to 170 that's 80 projects without a mention of CNC and after that we have 1 or 2 out of the 10 until we reach 177 which by a fluke had 3 but still wasn't 33% Now amongst the previous 1,770 projects [ approx ] since the mag started and that's very conservative as the early issues had something like 15 articles in them per issue there have been umpteen articles on toolposts, lathe stops, tool and cutter grinders but no one has bitched over these. David has mentioned that the American Digital Machinist magazine has a quarterly print run of 15,000 so there must be a demand out there for this subject matter. We don't have a specialist magazine for this but and it's a big BUT, the magazine is called MODEL ENGINEERS WORKSHOP and like it or not these machines are now in, wait for it, model engineers workshops. Now to put my other hat on. When the Sieg range of machines were being thought about we, as in Ketan at ARC and myself were doing CNC conversion kits for the X3. We were asked by Sieg to help out with a turnkey machine which we were initially loath to do as that took away the kit project. However reflecting on this if we didn't someone else would, so the first KX1 was built here and shipped to China. When these were ready at the new factory setup just to do the CNC machines we went over to shake them out and sort out support etc. Support was to be in the form of a web based forum with links to the various agents around the world. ARC became the sole UK and European agent with some sub agents in Europe. other countries like America had their agents and certain countries that were lacking agents were dealt with direct from the factory. For every machine sold details were passed to me for support purposes, the exceptions being internal sales in China and Russia which has bought a large number for training schools. I do not get the Russian numbers but can guess from the blocks of serial numbers missing. There are now in excess of 3,000 KX machines out there since they were introduced and this doesn't cover copies like Syil, How Mou, and Novacon so just what the total is no one knows. This also doesn't cover any home built or converted machines or the literally 1,000's of routers which all work on the same principle. Add to this the 15,000 readership of the only magazine for these people and you will see they are a force that will not go away whether you like it or not. Now if Myford for instance were able to sell this many instead of their rumoured 18 per year perhaps they could call the shots ? John S. Edited By John Stevenson on 30/05/2011 23:31:36
Gordon W	31/05/2011 09:40:30
2011 forum posts	Ned Ludd ( a mythical character anyway) was not against new machinery and technology. He, and his followers, were against being exploited and thrown out of work and home by the introduction of the new machines. A subtle difference.
John Stevenson	31/05/2011 10:09:39
5068 forum posts 3 photos	Posted by Gordon W on 31/05/2011 09:40:30: Ned Ludd ( a mythical character anyway) was not against new machinery and technology. He, and his followers, were against being exploited and thrown out of work and home by the introduction of the new machines. A subtle difference. That subtle I fail to see the relevance seeing as this is a hobby and how do you exploit someone who does this for fun and free ? Even if it wasn't it's already happened with no noticeable effects. When was the last time you saw industry advertising for a Centre Lathe Turner or a Milling Machine operator ? John S.
Steve Talbot 1	31/05/2011 10:35:17
31 forum posts	Well, from John Stevenson’s post I can see why he is interested in CNC articles and I do not dispute the number of CNC machines out there. This must support the view that a separate magazine dedicated to CNC is required.>> >> John also raises the interesting point that early editions of MEW had 15 project subjects per edition and this has now dropped to 10!!>> >> From a personal viewpoint I have no engineering background and started to teach myself around the time MEW first started. So working on the oft quoted basis that you can teach a good engineer to use CNC but can’t easily teach a CNC operative to be a good engineer I feel it will be many years before I can convert to CNC. I am fully in favour of articles on a wide range of engineering subject but believe they should be comprehendible and contain some general engineering information.
Tony Jeffree	31/05/2011 11:53:39
569 forum posts 20 photos	Posted by Steve Talbot 1 on 31/05/2011 10:35:17: Well, from John Stevenson’s post I can see why he is interested in CNC articles and I do not dispute the number of CNC machines out there. This must support the view that a separate magazine dedicated to CNC is required. John also raises the interesting point that early editions of MEW had 15 project subjects per edition and this has now dropped to 10!! From a personal viewpoint I have no engineering background and started to teach myself around the time MEW first started. So working on the oft quoted basis that you can teach a good engineer to use CNC but can’t easily teach a CNC operative to be a good engineer I feel it will be many years before I can convert to CNC. I am fully in favour of articles on a wide range of engineering subject but believe they should be comprehendible and contain some general engineering information. Well Steve, if we take your argument to its logical conclusion, there are some readers that only have a lathe and there are some that only have a milling machine, so we should split the mag into "Model Engineers' Lathe" and "Model Engineers' Mill" or similar. That would do a major dis-service to the vast majority of the readership that actually want to have a magazine that covers all aspects of the (model) engineers' workshop. The number of articles may well have reduced over the years, but my impression is (without doing the analysis) that the articles in recent years have been longer. I'm sure someone with time on their hands will do the necessary research and confirm or refute this. I would wholeheartedly agree that articles in MEW, on whatever subject, should be comprehensible and have some engineering content. I know that whenever I have written for MEW I have attempted to make the article as understandable to the uninitiated as I can.
Ian Hewson	31/05/2011 12:27:45
354 forum posts 33 photos	Hi again Having read all the comments about flat earthers and luddites from people who do not agree with the views of others and regard themselves as vastly superior to normal mortals, I am writing to say that they have convinced me to cancel my subscription and just buy the magazines that have subjects that do interest me. I should say that the atitude of these people has not changed over the years, they were still there well before cnc, and they knew everything then as they do now.
Ian S C	31/05/2011 13:42:40
7468 forum posts 230 photos	I imagine that in the late 19th early 20th century, similar arguments were held over electric motors on lathes, surely the real turner should use a treadle lathe(at least it made you have good sharp tools). All forms of working are legitamate surely. I don't use a computer in the workshop (I have a hard enough job getting this far)I carve up bits of metal using hand tools, and a manual lathe and vertical mill, and stick things together with a stick welder. But anyone who can use C A D, and CNC I admire, and I consider this as important as the blacksmiths hammer was hundreds of years ago (then they mucked that up with mechanicaly operated hammers). Ian S C
Lawrie Alush-Jaggs	31/05/2011 14:52:55
118 forum posts 32 photos	Hullo Evry Bardy! (Hello Dr. Nick) Ian. I am surprised that you cancelled your subscription. How does that affect the members of this forum whose opinions you disagree with? Isn't that a little like over machining your olfactory appendage to teach your face a lesson? Lawrie
Ian Hewson	31/05/2011 15:20:04
354 forum posts 33 photos	Hi Lawrie The tone of the thread was the final push I needed. I had been considering cancelling my subscription for some time, the number of cnc items was a consideration, but only a consideration. My cancellation will not affect the self opinionated few, I know, but I have been finding less interest in MEW for some time now, so I will buy what I want and leave that I do not. Time was when a reasonable discusion could take place without insults being thrown about, but that was in a luddite past Regards Ian

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