Dinosaur Engineer | 08/01/2011 18:28:29 |
147 forum posts 4 photos | Has anyone noticed that it's much easier to read a rule measurement if the division engraved lines are no more than 2 as long as the division interval ?
I've always found the 1/100th inch division lines too long and it makes it difficult to read but when division lines are are much shorter it's much easier to read . |
chris stephens | 08/01/2011 20:10:34 |
1049 forum posts 1 photos | Hi Guys,
I know the politically correct nutters think you can use the language anyway you like, but I am not one of them.
In my Shorter Oxford English Dictionary, you know the 1500 plus page version, the correct term is a "RULER". it even gives an example where it says under the word "RULE" 1, "to mark (paper, etc.) with parallel straight lines drawn with a ruler or by machine 1440. 2, To form or mark out (a line) with or as with a ruler 1599. Indicating that "rule" is a verb (to rule), not a noun.
Rule can be used for Ruler but if OED uses the extra "R" in its examples that is good enough for me and should be good enough for you lot too.
![]() You chaps will have to forgive me being a pedant on this but it took me years to learn to speak English, which is my second language, my native tongue is Gibberish!
chriStephens
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The Merry Miller | 08/01/2011 20:23:51 |
![]() 484 forum posts 97 photos | Here's another viewpoint on the issue. 1. A rule is used for measuring. 2. A ruler is used for ruling (drawing) lines. As derived from the Oxford Dictionary. |
John Stevenson | 08/01/2011 20:45:26 |
![]() 5068 forum posts 3 photos | Whatever, these stainless steel sticks have mm graduation on both edges and irrespective of what they are called allow one to measure parts in millimetres. That will do for me. Edited By John Stevenson on 08/01/2011 20:46:14 |
NJH | 08/01/2011 21:06:41 |
![]() 2314 forum posts 139 photos |
Chris I know you are going to quote the O.E.D as the definitive source however Chambers ( a neat and handy volume) gives rule as : a straight - edged strip used as a guide in drawing straight lines or as a measuring rod, or a means of mechanical calculation..........(etc etc )
Further it shows ruler as a strip or roller for ruling lines
So, as I can't afford the O.E.D. nor yet have space for it in the library, I will rest content in my chambers, druling over the pics some of you guys post, confident that I know just what to pick up when I next want to take a measurement.
Norman
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John Olsen | 08/01/2011 22:55:45 |
1294 forum posts 108 photos 1 articles | People tend to quote dictionaries as if they are some sort of authority of correct usage. Actualy in English there is no authority for correct usage, and the dictionaries only reflect past usage. The way it works is that the dictionary compilers collect examples from published works of spelling and usage, and as time goes on update the dictionaries to reflect the way words are actually being used. There is no such thing as a legally defined correct English spelling, and even if there were there is no way to enforce it on reprobates such as the Americans, the Canadians, the Indians, the Singaporese, the Australians, and other nations who use English, or something resembling it, often in their own unique ways. This is quite different to the way it works in say French, where the French Academy can lay down the law as to what is and isn't correct French. The process as described for English does have one weakness, in that the dictionary compilers tend to be literary types. This tends to mean that usages and spellings that appear in literary works are far more likely to be reflected in the dictionary than technical terms. When they do appear, technical terms are far more likely to be dealt with poorly, and for the classic example, refer to the definitions of terms related to sailing ships in Doctor Johnsons first Engilsh dictionary. From a writers point of view, what we have to ask ourselves is " will the reader understand what I mean if I use this particular word, spelt in this particular way". The dictionary can provide a good guide as to what the reader is likely to understand, and is what they will get for guidance if they don't understand and decide to look it up. So it is useful, but not the final word, especially in technical matters, where words are only likely to appear in the dictionary long after the technology is obsolete. On a more on topic line, somebody above was commenting about rules/rulers with half divisions at one end being hard to read. I took a look at what a local supplier has the other day. Facom make a ruler/rule that does not have the half mm divisions at the start end, they are full millimeters on both edges all the way along. The one I saw was 300 mm long, with millimeters on both edges. Square at the zero end, longer at the other end with a hole to hang it up by. Most of the items in stock did have the half mm divisions, but they do make at least one model that does not. So you may be able to find something like that. regards John |
Ian S C | 09/01/2011 06:20:28 |
![]() 7468 forum posts 230 photos | If you look at words such as 'anneal' in the Concise Oxford dictionary you may be a bit confused. Ian S C |
michael m | 11/02/2012 11:41:49 |
61 forum posts 3 photos | Many years ago I bought a 6" steel rule (M&W) which I've always used in a rule holder on a small surface plate for setting the pointer of a scribing block.I didn't have an engineering background and was advised to do this by a proper engineer who also suggested that the rule should not be kept in the overall pocket and not used for general workshop use. The rule has now disappeared. A couple of weeks ago I had a big cleaning up session and remember removing the rule from the holder, cleaning it with a paper towel and lightly spraying with WD40, it being a carbon steel rule. Exhaustive and repeated searches have failed to find it and I suspect it may have been inadvertently binned along with the soiled cleaning materials. Can anyone help me to source a replacement? Sounds easy but the problem is that modern quality ones have very light photo engraved graduations, some seem almost printed on. In fact I read in another forum of the risk of rubbing off the graduation marks from a Rabone Chesterman rule. The beauty of deep engraving is that one can feel the scriber point click into the graduation, a great help, as the years go by, with diminishing visual acuity. Curiously, a lot of the cheap rules available do have decently engraved depth but accuracy is usually an issue. They tend to be sheared rather than ground and the first division is invariably too small. I've seen some real shockers at model engineering exhibitions. (Surprise). I've tried searching on the internet to no avail, so can anyone help please? Thanks Michael |
NJH | 11/02/2012 12:28:34 |
![]() 2314 forum posts 139 photos | Hi Michael I have sent you a message. ( Look in " My Messages" in "My Account" at the top left of the home page ) Regards Norman |
Ian P | 11/02/2012 19:18:33 |
![]() 2747 forum posts 123 photos | Posted by NJH on 11/02/2012 12:28:34:
Hi Michael
I have sent you a message. ( Look in " My Messages" in "My Account" at the top left of the home page )
Regards
Norman Norman
Dont keep it a secret!
If you have found a rule that suits Michael, its one that would suit me too. Where can I get one?
Ian |
Mike Poole | 01/04/2019 18:51:58 |
![]() 3676 forum posts 82 photos | I found these rules in my Axminster tool store **LINK** both sides have a millimetre and half millimetre scales but one side has the millimetres at the top and the other at the bottom, for metric work they are ideal to my mind. I have no connection to Axminster but I think these rules are nicely made and useful. Mike Edited By Mike Poole on 01/04/2019 18:52:30 |
Mick Henshall | 01/04/2019 21:07:29 |
![]() 562 forum posts 34 photos | I would like a hook ruler but prices are extortionate, easy enough to alter a normal rule I think Mick 🇬🇧 |
Nigel Graham 2 | 02/04/2019 00:43:08 |
3293 forum posts 112 photos | It's not only rules whose graduations shrink with age. Try reading one of the original Myford die-cast dials in anything but perfect lighting! Really, the answer is good light and magnifying-glass. Not long ago, in Aldis or Lidls, I picked up a neat illuminated lens, about 100mm dia., on an adjustable stand combined with a soldering-iron rest. The engineering is rough-and-ready but optically it is of fair standard for the price, and lit by a self-contained l.e.d. unit with AA or AAA cells. I forget what I paid, but I'm fairly sure it was well <£30. The magnifier can be removed from the stand and replaced without harm to either, so could readily be fitted to a magnetic dial-indicator stand or other appropriate column for machine-tool or marking-out viewing. . One of my most useful rules is part of a delightfully antique-looking combination-square, and only 4" long by about 1/2" wide; with the 90/45º square sized pro-rata! I do not know its provenance, or if it ever had a protractor. It is very compact for measuring on the lathe or mill, but for easier reading, if the work-piece geometry allows, I sometimes use it on its square as a depth-rule. |
Speedy Builder5 | 02/04/2019 07:04:25 |
2878 forum posts 248 photos | Why do most rules measure from the left ? Often you need to measure from the right, and just have to work upside down. Personaly, I use a cheapo aluminium rule marked off in 1/8"s (I think they were originally called "blind man's rules" |
Plasma | 02/04/2019 07:25:51 |
443 forum posts 1 photos | I like the scale on the rule in Spurrys post , I've seen them but didn't appreciate why the tapered graduations were there. I have some rules with slot graduations on the short end, as discussed before, ideal for some jobs. I also have some rules with the numbers engraved so that it can be read when vertical without having to crank your neck round like an owl. Fabulous for setting surface gauges etc. |
Brian G | 02/04/2019 07:42:34 |
912 forum posts 40 photos | I bought a 100mm rule, clearly marked, handy for working around a machine but only graduated on one face! Instead of the reverse being used for imperial, right-left measurement, putting 1/2mm on the opposite side of the rule or even a set of handy conversion tables, it just says "Axminster". WHY? Brian |
Hopper | 02/04/2019 07:58:09 |
![]() 7881 forum posts 397 photos | Why? Why cheapness of manufacture of course. Half the cost. Same price. Bingo.
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Michael Gilligan | 02/04/2019 07:59:37 |
![]() 23121 forum posts 1360 photos | Posted by Brian G on 02/04/2019 07:42:34:
I bought a 100mm rule, clearly marked, handy for working around a machine but only graduated on one face! Instead of the reverse being used for imperial, right-left measurement, putting 1/2mm on the opposite side of the rule or even a set of handy conversion tables, it just says "Axminster". WHY? Brian . That's the side that faces the carpet MichaelG. |
Hopper | 02/04/2019 08:14:51 |
![]() 7881 forum posts 397 photos | Posted by Mick Henshall on 01/04/2019 21:07:29:
I would like a hook ruler but prices are extortionate, easy enough to alter a normal rule I think Mick 🇬🇧 I have one but it's marked in picas and points one side and millimeters the other. And its called a printer's gauge, so neither a rule nor ruler. Go figure. To add to the confusion, Australian printers call a pica an "emm", but a true "emm" space is a different dimension to a pica, based on the width of a letter M.
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Brian G | 02/04/2019 08:35:48 |
912 forum posts 40 photos | Posted by Hopper on 02/04/2019 07:58:09:
Why? Why cheapness of manufacture of course. Half the cost. Same price. Bingo.
If it was plain on the back I would agree, but as both sides are marked there isn't a cost saving. I'm reluctant to cut down a 64R but it is starting to appeal. Brian |
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